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Discussion Autumn Zodiac

DeletedUser2829

Guest
The whole idea of gaming the system and comparing it to a cash machine is very revealing. Inno wants to be a casino, not a game. That's why every new feature is a gamble not a simple "do x, win y". If I wanted to gamble there are thousands of betting sites that don't pretend to be anything else. I have played this game for 3 years. I have spent a reasonable amount of money in that time for my fun, probably around £300. In the last year I feel every decision I am offered is trying to manipulate me to gamble and spend. Its not fun anymore, I feel like I am being taken advantage of by someone who has read too much amateur psychology and is trying to manipulate me, and I am smarter than their pop psychology. Many players in my live world FS feel the same way. Its last straw time. I have good friends in this game, and I used to enjoy it. Please please please rein in the rapaciousness. The real reason for endless quest we all know and Inno will never admit. Its because the manipulators in chief believe it will milk more money out of their player base. I think they are right, at least in the short run. Look back a year from now with a much smaller player base after mass desertion and it won't look so smart.
 

Loki Blue

Well-Known Member
The anger is coming from Inno refusing to allow abuse and players are upset that they can no longer abuse the system.

I'm sorry but where when a game offers 3 bears can you think it is right to try and get 10.

I don't want 10 Bears. All I wanted was to be able to level my one, single, Polar Bear. The only Bear I intended to place from the get-go. Not everyone here is "gaming the system", and I resent the insinuation that the only reason I am angry about this is because I am one of the "abusers".
 

Deleted User - 81190

Guest
This nerf was presented as a boost to offset the 80 key cap. You will get a lot more respect by being honest. "Players are still winning too many prizes for free, we need to make it harder". Just say that.
This.

I am fine with making things more difficult if there is belief that it is still too easy (which is a matter of perspective). I don't appreciate when someone insults my intelligence by claiming that this is somehow a net-neutral change. Just like a claim that quests are "random" where multiple people reporting 5+ in a row of the same quest (out of 21 possibilities). Even with severely non-uniform distribution of these probabilities the chances of these observations would be miniscule. This is not how random processes work.
 

DeletedUser2329

Guest
@Scoobydoo such a shame :( You guys still don't get it, do you?
There is no such thing as an "abuser" player, unless he's hacking the system. There are just players using the tools that INNO has provided to them the best way they can. So if INNO thinks that an abuse of this tools is taking place, it's INNO's fault cause they introduce things they haven't think them through. So don't go saying that we are upset cause we don't have it easy. We are upset cause you introduced in live worlds a problematic event, and still no answer about the repetitive quests. If you have no answer to that, please
say nothing because by saying nothing you are saying everything.
 

palmira

Well-Known Member
And again my 2 cents: the problem with this format is basically being unbalanced for casual players that only want one bear. So an easy way to fix the unfairness feeling most players display right now is to increase gradually the amount of stars (or whatever) to a grand prize and/or change the chests on top of the change of the requirements for the tasks ( that shouldn't be as hard in the beginning and should be harder after a decent amount of thingies collected). So for the first 9 artefacts it would be needed 20 stars, the 2nd batch of 9 25, 3rd 30 and so on.
 

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
@Scoobydoo such a shame :( You guys still don't get it, do you?
There is no such thing as an "abuser" player, unless he's hacking the system. There are just players using the tools that INNO has provided to them the best way they can. So if INNO thinks that an abuse of this tools is taking place, it's INNO's fault cause they introduce things they haven't think them through. So don't go saying that we are upset cause we don't have it easy. We are upset cause you introduced in live worlds a problematic event, and still no answer about the repetitive quests. If you have no answer to that, please

so why are you upset when they remove the tools that they provided? They are just trying to fix their current system?
They tried it with, complete province quest, they try it with workshop/factory quests at current level.
 

DeletedUser2329

Guest
so why are you upset when they remove the tools that they provided? They are just trying to fix their current system?
They tried it with, complete province quest, they try it with workshop/factory quests at current level.

I do not understand your question, I'm sorry. I thought I made it perfectly clear, why I'm upset. I'm upset about the repetitive same quests, as most of the fellow players here, from what I read. And as I've said in a previous message, I'm doing quite well in my live world. But that's only because the repetitive quests that came my way was doable during the tournament. Not all the players, though, are able to open 40-45 provinces to do so. So, call me stupid, but I don't look into the matter just in favor for myself. I hope I clarified for you now, why I'm "upset".
 

Deleted User - 60107

Guest
The anger is coming from Inno refusing to allow abuse and players are upset that they can no longer abuse the system. If you want to blame anyone then blame the players that keep abusing systems.

I'm sorry but where when a game offers 3 bears can you think it is right to try and get 10.
I'm sorry, but: That's a load of Orc Dung and you know it! Inno set the rules and made it possible to win X prizes. Players followed the rules and won all the X prizes. Then Inno said: You won too many prizes! You were supposed to win at most Y prizes, you were not supposed to win all X prizes!

I'm sorry, but that's not players abusing the system, that's the game's developers not thinking things through. If you want players to win at most Y prizes, DO NOT offer more than Y prizes! Or go back to the system of a fixed number of quests, where you had control over the max amount of event cufrrency won (which in turn limited the max number of prizes won without spending money).

You guys at Inno set the rules and players followed your rules. You have no one but yourselves to blame if the results are not what you expected. Try actually playing your game some time. And test events a bit longer. Right now events go to live ~2 weeks after they start on Beta, even when the events are not yet over on Beta. Try finishing events on Beta before releasing them on live.
 

lika1961

Well-Known Member
The really sad thing is that all of this irritation and upset could have been avoided by keeping the sequential quest system. It worked fine and we felt that we had a fair chance. You would have to choose which bear you wanted to upgrade, i.e. you could not upgrade 3 of them fully. No problem, some people are fighters, some are not, so would not really need all 3. There would have been a bit of grumbling, but mostly people would have made a choice and then moved on. Use your small workshops and tier 1s (which have become the norm to have) to produce what is needed to get the upgrades for one fully evolved bear. Good plan, let's go.

Instead we have a total mess of a system to avoid people getting 10 bears. Nobody asked for more than 3. The people who abuse the system are not writing about it on the forum. They do it and enjoy the "benefits" of doing so quietly. The people who don't abuse the system are most likely not going to have even 1 fully evolved bear unless they do certain things which most people would consider as detrimental to their city. That is actually the problem - punishing the majority to stop the minority from doing something and making events no fun. And insulting our intelligence in the process.

I don't believe that this whole event mess purely has to do with Inno wanting us to spend more money. It has to do with not understanding the different ways we develop our cities. We used the tools and things like event buildings in different ways, so there is not really a "standard" city any more. Changes made based on the assumption of this "standard" way of playing is a bad idea. A lot of people have an area dedicated to small workshops and tier 1s in their cities. Let us use those for events or come up with a much, much better system of revolving quests. Calm will return and we can get on with playing the game. That will be a very good thing.
 

UlyssesBlue

Well-Known Member
No, no, no, say nothing because by saying nothing you are saying everything.
The anger is coming from Inno refusing to allow abuse and players are upset that they can no longer abuse the system. If you want to blame anyone then blame the players that keep abusing systems.

I'm sorry but where when a game offers 3 bears can you think it is right to try and get 10. That's like me realising there is as fault with a bank cash machine and going back 10 times to get more than I have in the account.
Just be grateful it took awhile for the company to know what was happening.
EVERY game has to have limitations. Whatever you want to call the game system.
Very sad puppy but I also on my phone play Toon Blast and have 5 lives but if I go through them all I am asked to pay for more. That's what companies do, so where is this any different. you want 10 bears then pay for it because the other 9 do not come free.

Oh Scooby take a Scooby snack and chill out for goodness sake, and you baggages I still love you all :p

A very large number of players are raising entirely legitimate concerns and complaints. You may not agree with us, but that doesn't justify you being outright rude about it. Your response is blatantly unprofessional, and fails to understand why people are upset to begin with.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I’m a little late to this conversation but have a few questions. I never made it past quest #5 in beta so it took using my live account to participate in it.

1. Why are there more bears for grand prizes? Was this intended for people who just started a new city and getting through chapters 1 – 3 during the event. Then they have a new bear for each chapter? And disenchant the previous chapters. Or someone at the end of a chapter and moving to a new chapter. I don’t know what the value is for anyone sitting at one chapter for a long time to have more than one of each bear

2. Repetitive quests – are you guys absolutely sure, this isn’t based on how you play?
If you’re willing to over-scout your map – maybe you’ll get more of these
If you have 5 or more max level workshops – maybe you’ll get more toolbox quests
If you have more than 1 max level tier 1 factory – maybe you’ll get longer productions
Are you making things that you need in the magic academy for vision vapor, or crap stuff just to get the quest done?
Did you buy a bunch of kps to get through chapters faster or when you needed them?

I don’t know just thinking out loud here, maybe this has no bearing on the game but then again maybe it does. I’ve had my fair share of getting frustrated with events, but a lot of my frustrations were fixed – the trading got fixed which was a biggie because I shouldn’t get stopped in an event by other players. My nemesis is still the encounters quest when I don’t want to work on my map. But that is by choice versus what the game is doing. It signals my stopping point in an event and I’m okay with that because maybe the next event when I can work on my map, they will have something even better.

3. I thought I understood minimum factory levels but I don’t think I do. On live, my steel city has to create goods with a level 6 factory (I’m in chapter 3) why isn’t it a level 5 factory? Level 5 is the minimum level for a chapter 2 city. While my marble city gets to use a minimum level factory.
 
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Dony

King of Bugs
If you want to blame anyone then blame the players that keep abusing systems.
I blame INNO, they saw what happened with MM events and what they did? They increased number of grand prizes from MM event from 107 to 332 for Autumn event. Its like yelling at players, abuse as much as you want. Proper answer would be to lower it to 52 grand prizes so we could get only 1 bear each, and thats the only possible fix with this system. Keep as many grand prizes as you want, but dont include 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc set of bears in it, leave it be just for generic rewards, nobody wil be abusing system for generic rewards.
 

iDavis

Well-Known Member
@Dony the reason why they don't do that is the fact, that player who is trying to abuse system and player who buy grand prizes with diamonds is probably not the same one. Such a change would mean decreased profits for devs from events, so bad for them.
 

Dony

King of Bugs
@Dony the reason why they don't do that is the fact, that player who is trying to abuse system and player who buy grand prizes with diamonds is probably not the same one. Such a change would mean decreased profits for devs from events, so bad for them.
not really, its all about design, they can make 20 stages instead of 10, where later stages will be more lucrative or many other options i can think of
nobody telling them that every stage must have different graphic, it can easily change graphic every 2 stages, so same amount of work for them
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
This event made me sad. Such terrific art, yet so many poorly thought out changes that have made it irritating to participate. I will probably be able to level one building on one server, and none of my other cities will get that far. I am exhausted by endlessly obtaining relics and solving encounters. My careful preparation of 12 scouted provinces has been exhausted, so now I spend two days waiting for a scout, play for five minutes, then spend two more days waiting. I can't even begin to express my disdain for the pretense that the quests were somehow made easier by removing some of the straightforward ones that caused time delays, but were at least doable in a day.

I hope the people who came up with the line that they've made the event easier so we deserve fewer event coins is at least a little bit ashamed of how stupid they seem to think we are.
 

TomatoeHu

Well-Known Member
Wonderfully predictable answer by a moderator.. Scooby, What are you moderating here, your opinion of how cheating works in Elvenar? Too funny. Nice to jump in and ramble off some garbage about cheaters being the reason for yet another unimaginative crappy event. That we the forum, should accept cheating because it happens and we should also accept crappy events? My spidey senses tell me it's because you play games like Toon Blast, you have such a clear perspective of what's actually happening....

To begin with, had Inno listened to ALL the suggestions for fixing abuse Years ago ( that's 365 days times 3 years I have known Elvenar and hold them accountable for) , we wouldn't be here now. If Inno had any foresight, and competent employees, they wouldn't release content that could be abused. Do we need to "all caps" this next part ? Inno has the choice to cap evolutions. Inno encourages cheating by implementing a random system with unlimited evolutions. Their fault.
No Foresight. All for money. It's clear to everyone else, perhaps we should all translate to German for Inno? English isn't working. Short sighted. Biggest weakness of this team. Can't see past their art. High-schoolers can out code this game. Time for Inno to step up and be accountable.

We have told Inno what they are doing wrong, they don't listen. We get terrible new content because of their stupidity and causing player's to find ways to cheat ?

Forum user's have been reporting players who abuse the system for years. It's Inno's job to prevent ( cap evolutions ) and delete accounts that are abusing the game. Why should ALL players get to play a ridiculous version of the game and events because of bad players? Bad players who made poor decisions because Inno makes poor decisions? How is a any player or forum user to prevent cheating? Give me privilege and I will start erasing accounts. I have a list. NO? What? Ahhh, thats right, that's not what Inno reallllly wants !! The cheaters are a huge slice of their paycheck. All the diamond players who cheat or diamond pushers, or any diamond city that goes inactive. Gotta keep those players cause they might spend more money! We have cheaters because Inno allows it and benefits from it. There are plenty of non diamond purchasing players too, pushing KP around while Inno hopes and waits for the day they will start spending diamonds.

Next time a moderator pops on here to derail a conversation, or bury a post, read the ALL the previous pages. First. We do expect a better conversation then this from all of you. Stop slipping in and making fun of players or blaming us for Inno's failings. One moderator even LIKED a post that continued to make fun of a player. Shameful. Last time I checked moderators were supposed to prevent bullying not be one. Somewhere else in the job description should be " respond with relevant and accurate information". Beta testers are giving you untapped , free, helpful, insightful, educational advice for Inno and we don't need you or anyone else to belittle us and tell us we deserve crappy events because other players cheat. Garbage, Lazy, Garbage.
 

Deleted User - 56274

Guest
@soleil I for one do not Buy KP unless required to do so by an event and then I resent it. I also do not typically craft a lot in the MA outside of events so getting those quests is definitely not based on my play style. I also do not tend to scout or complete provinces other than enough to open the next chapter as I do not enjoy the battle system. So, if IG is basing it on anyone's game style it is definitely not mine :)
As I have said previously, the issues I have with the gain relics, solve encounters and scouting quests are that they do push players beyond what they need to open the next chapter and if you do more than one event in a chapter the more likely that is. They are also skewed toward high level players and should be scaled. Asking players lower than chapter 10 to do 45 encounter quests is outlandish.
@Scoobydoo
I do not see how using speed boosts to complete longer quests is gaming the system or 'cheating'. I also do not see it as gaming the system to make a see of level 1 t1s or workshops when you were asked to do a high number of productions that were beyond the number of t1 or workshops that were required by the event quests. Most of the events from FA, to the mini-production events run counter to effective game play, so they DO encourage players to have mini-cities and other actions to run through them without adversely impacting the evolution of their city. That is not an issue with the play style of the player, that is a design flaw or not understanding how various players interact with the game. The fact that the developers originally keyed 188 as the max for an arbitrary repeating number was a design flaw. If they had done scaled quest rewards based on the quest being completed similar to what they had done on the old quest lines, they would have reduced the event currency granted and allowed themselves to use a full, varied quest list of free, low, medium and high cost quests, but it would have likely been far more balanced than what the current system is. Unless the players are hacking the system somehow, which in my case is quite simply not true, then the fact that we are doing things IG did not foresee is not our fault, but their own. This is one of the entire purposes of the beta test and hopefully their own internal testing, which from my perspective is quite flawed.
 

DeletedUser2632

Guest
No, no, no, say nothing because by saying nothing you are saying everything.
The anger is coming from Inno refusing to allow abuse and players are upset that they can no longer abuse the system. If you want to blame anyone then blame the players that keep abusing systems.

I'm sorry but where when a game offers 3 bears can you think it is right to try and get 10. That's like me realising there is as fault with a bank cash machine and going back 10 times to get more than I have in the account.
Just be grateful it took awhile for the company to know what was happening.
EVERY game has to have limitations. Whatever you want to call the game system.
Very sad puppy but I also on my phone play Toon Blast and have 5 lives but if I go through them all I am asked to pay for more. That's what companies do, so where is this any different. you want 10 bears then pay for it because the other 9 do not come free.

Oh Scooby take a Scooby snack and chill out for goodness sake, and you baggages I still love you all :p
Stupid answer that addresses nothing

In the old events, there were 3 grand prizes and set number of quests. There was also a hard limit to how many event items one could collect (i.e. finish all quests and collect all drops). I cannot imagine how to abuse that system.

You changed it to an "abusable" system and now it's the players' fault. Are there idiots working at Inno? There are only 2 scenarios I can see here:

1. Devs are stupidly oblivious to what their changes create. In that case please hire someone more competent

2. Devs know exactly what they are doing and are trying to smokescreen us. In that case this game doesn't deserve its players' investment

Keep this up and I'll put a 1 star rating for the game on every platform I can, together with a commensurate review.
 
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