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Discussion Autumn Zodiac

DeletedUser332

Guest
I'm kinda getting mixed signals here from you folks at Inno. Changing events to provide 'endless' quests sounds fantastic, but when I see phrases being used like 'stay within our desired prize outcome', it sounds like this is just an illusion of potential that's going to be continually tweaked to make sure events pretty much stay the same for us players, even if it SEEMS like we can get more out of them. Is this what the goal actually was all along? Are 'endless' quests only meant to lower event winnings for the more casual players (due to removing the daily quests), thus subtly pushing them towards buying more diamonds since they're no longer going to win as much from events by playing? And if not, what was the reason for making quests endless?

I'm also very troubled to learn that you developers intentionally put in 'roadblock' quests meant to slow down or even completely stop players from progressing through events. I do understand wanting things to take time, but events are time-limited as it is and if nothing's going to be done about scouting times for players at the end of the game, then there will never be a player at the end of the game who feels good about seeing one of those quests pop up, and saying 'just use time boosters' is practically another form of arm-twisting since events are time-limited themselves. There's already that sense of urgency with the event timer; with something like a scouting quest that can take upwards of 3 days for a player maxed out on province expansions, and for Inno to essentially just say 'deal with it', it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's getting harder and harder for me to be excited about new things in the game because I'm starting to feel like the developers only care about making the game look nice on the surface to get diamonds out of people before they realize just how anti-player nearly every game feature actually is.

One final thing. It's obvious that the Elvenar and Forge of Empires teams share or 'borrow' ideas, especially recently as more and more features become shared between them, albeit in ways that fit each game's style. Unfortunately for Elvenar, in my opinion, Forge simply does all of them better. New features aren't designed just to suck down player resources while providing middling rewards; new quests aren't designed specifically to take as long as possible; and along with the game offering so many free diamonds that it's entirely possible to eventually play as a 'premium' player for years without ever buying diamonds, the diamonds that a player DOES earn go so much farther. You can buy every single premium expansion in Forge, a total of 44, for 42,200 diamonds and the most expensive is 1800. In Elvenar, where diamonds cost more or less the same amount to buy, you're already past that number as soon as you buy the 16th expansion and there's another 17 to go. Why is Elvenar so, SO much more predatory or anti-player than Forge is when they both come from the same company? Perhaps they're intended for different types of people? If this is the case, I don't think I'm part of the intended audience for Elvenar...and I feel bad for the ones who are, because they probably don't realize it.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
got 3 of them today (3/10 quests)... I've managed to do 2 of them via research (still have 34 hours of scooting started after mandatory scooting quest), but 3 of such quests out of 10 is a bit too high...
That's not a bit too high. That's a direct slap in the face of end tech players.
I will not comment Kersepitje's post otherwise I would get banned.

And for everyone who suggest to use time instants: We have limited amount of them. And the way quests are, we would run out of them within several days. Then, back to day one - but without time instants.

Or maybe Inno's developers has become lazy to do new chapters, so they simply want all end tech players to quit, so they won't have to make new chapters when no one is at the end of tech tree.

Overall: What is the point to have endless quests when you make them so hard than we actually earn less than before endless quests?
To force players to buy and use more diamonds? If that is the reason, do you realize it will be the opposite? Outraged players will not spend more, they will spend less or even quit.
 

DeletedUser3020

Guest
I'm on Mozaic Pilars… A new production is running and I will see in a couple of hours… If it's not good, I will send a bug report as you suggest…

Thank you for your answer :))

Hello,

A I said, I sent a report yesterday and the answer was in my box this morning : it was indeed a bug, which has been fixed right away !

Thank you one more time for you help ! :))
 

DeletedUser2630

Guest
The balance is really cool.

A small player needs the most hammers and coins. The event requires a smaller number of workshops / manufactories.

A big player doesn't need any extra hammers or goods. It has a minimum of manufactories and workshops. Still, the event wants more manufactories / workshops.

I wonder what the average player looks like? Does the average player have a 24-hour day and how many hands?

Obviously they once again managed to do the same nonsense as they once did by averaging magical manufactories, including dead towns, and 1 lvl for free (to recalculate plans).
 

TomatoeHu

Well-Known Member
This is just Inno's way to make the game more "Pay to Win" and the road blocks are on purpose to make you purchase diamonds to make it through the event.

Not fooling me, I seem to recall a few events where the building bonuses get changed. I wont buy anything from Inno, there is no trust that what I win will be the same in two weeks. Or even a year later. So why would i use diamonds, not even free ones from wishing wells.

If you don't want us to play, be careful what you wish for.
 

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
I'm kinda getting mixed signals here from you folks at Inno. Changing events to provide 'endless' quests sounds fantastic, but when I see phrases being used like 'stay within our desired prize outcome', it sounds like this is just an illusion of potential that's going to be continually tweaked to make sure events pretty much stay the same for us players, even if it SEEMS like we can get more out of them. Is this what the goal actually was all along? Are 'endless' quests only meant to lower event winnings for the more casual players (due to removing the daily quests), thus subtly pushing them towards buying more diamonds since they're no longer going to win as much from events by playing? And if not, what was the reason for making quests endless?

I'm also very troubled to learn that you developers intentionally put in 'roadblock' quests meant to slow down or even completely stop players from progressing through events. I do understand wanting things to take time, but events are time-limited as it is and if nothing's going to be done about scouting times for players at the end of the game, then there will never be a player at the end of the game who feels good about seeing one of those quests pop up, and saying 'just use time boosters' is practically another form of arm-twisting since events are time-limited themselves. There's already that sense of urgency with the event timer; with something like a scouting quest that can take upwards of 3 days for a player maxed out on province expansions, and for Inno to essentially just say 'deal with it', it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's getting harder and harder for me to be excited about new things in the game because I'm starting to feel like the developers only care about making the game look nice on the surface to get diamonds out of people before they realize just how anti-player nearly every game feature actually is.

One final thing. It's obvious that the Elvenar and Forge of Empires teams share or 'borrow' ideas, especially recently as more and more features become shared between them, albeit in ways that fit each game's style. Unfortunately for Elvenar, in my opinion, Forge simply does all of them better. New features aren't designed just to suck down player resources while providing middling rewards; new quests aren't designed specifically to take as long as possible; and along with the game offering so many free diamonds that it's entirely possible to eventually play as a 'premium' player for years without ever buying diamonds, the diamonds that a player DOES earn go so much farther. You can buy every single premium expansion in Forge, a total of 44, for 42,200 diamonds and the most expensive is 1800. In Elvenar, where diamonds cost more or less the same amount to buy, you're already past that number as soon as you buy the 16th expansion and there's another 17 to go. Why is Elvenar so, SO much more predatory or anti-player than Forge is when they both come from the same company? Perhaps they're intended for different types of people? If this is the case, I don't think I'm part of the intended audience for Elvenar...and I feel bad for the ones who are, because they probably don't realize it.

you dont get that it that when the game provides a max of 108 grand prizes in their code, and players end up getting 250 grand prizes, that this is an issue? Ofcourse this isnt their desired outcome. 108 prizes was probably an unatainable limit for them that they didnt expect to anyone get. Remember phoenix event? where people had a very hard time to get to 9 evolutions? thats only 18 or 19 grand prizes...
I totally get that they want to do something about it, and i dont see how others dont think its an issue, you know inno needs to make money, and if its so easy, why would anyone even consider spending money on it....

This is just Inno's way to make the game more "Pay to Win" and the road blocks are on purpose to make you purchase diamonds to make it through the event.

Not fooling me, I seem to recall a few events where the building bonuses get changed. I wont buy anything from Inno, there is no trust that what I win will be the same in two weeks. Or even a year later. So why would i use diamonds, not even free ones from wishing wells.

If you don't want us to play, be careful what you wish for.
Im also in your shoes, and have trust issue after the many balancing things. However i might consider spending some diamonds here because i just love how these bears look. And ive had fun in this game over the years, they deserve some money.... :)
And i realise they might nerf it later on, or they might add new things that put these bears in the shadow. Imagine a new unit in one of the next chapters thats so good that we wont ever use any of the units that one bear produces. Its very possible.
 

Dony

King of Bugs
However i might consider spending some diamonds here because i just love how these bears look.
in a week where greedfall, gear 5 or borderlands 3 releasing i would rather spend that money on something which will be much more enjoyable then to have 5 scout quests for 5 days in a row and you are done with event due time runs out
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@Heymrdiedier Most players don't see the problem in fact that they nerfed the amount of obtainable event currency and rewards compared to the mermaids event.
Most players see the problem in fact that they overdid it way too much. Especialy end game players are way too much punished for their progress (not only them of course). Many less active players who struggled to get even one Mermaid, will probably skip this event completely.

By my opinion, the hard quests should be at the end of the cycle preventing some extremists to obtain too many rewards, not from the begining preventing everyone to get even 1 fully upgraded bear.
 

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
@Heymrdiedier Most players don't see the problem in fact that they nerfed the amount of obtainable event currency and rewards compared to the mermaids event.
Most players see the problem in fact that they overdid it way too much. Especialy end game players are way too much punished for their progress (not only them of course). Many less active players who struggled to get even one Mermaid, will probably skip this event completely.

By my opinion, the hard quests should be at the end of the cycle preventing some extremists to obtain too many rewards, not from the begining preventing everyone to get even 1 fully upgraded bear.
we will see, its only day 2 (or almost 3 now) and im at about 2000 event currency, thats less then in mermaids, but not problematic yet (mermaids first quest was 40 currency and now was only 10, so doesnt feel like much difference yet).
I got lucky, I managed to do a lot of quest after each other this morning, hoping it stays this way. :)

This is not meaningful and the purpose of the issue is to spend boosters, there has always been an alternative. I hope it will be changed.
if the alternative is collect 14 vision vapor, ill probably use time boosts on that aswell, since its more production after each other, and i dont like to wait 3-4 hours, if im playing 'now'
 

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
@Heymrdiedier And did you use time instants or not? Did you get 3 or more scout quests or were you lucky?
i didnt get unlucky :) i got 24 production (didnt have that ready) 2 times basket of grocerys and got the large amount of planks a few times allready.
no extra scout except for the mandatory first one without alternative. i had only 1 hour left on time when i got that Q, so there i was lucky.
 

DeletedUser2818

Guest
@Lovec Krys I just adjusted the font of your previous post. Please keep it a bit less flashy, thank you :)

As already stated in the announcement: With the new requirement that the buildings have to be around your chapter, we have also considerably lowered the needed amounts compared to before, so please keep this in perspective as well. This way you don't need to tear down half of your city to place a lot of level 1 buildings (something we got a lot of complaints about when it came down to events blocking the normal evolution of your city) so it has 2 sides: Yes, your workshops and manufactories need to be at a certain level, but on the other hand you don't have to produce huge amounts anymore, and therefore it's no longer necessary for you to build a lot of extra buildings just to be able to do all the quests :)
If anything, we will still have to tear down half of our cities, but this time we'll have to upgrade the buildings a ludicrous number of levels as well. Truly an excellent tactic to see to which extent whales can be milked. Absolutely despicable.

I see there a quest Scout a province with no alternate. :):)
Utterly unsurprising, given the "pay to win" - no, that's not enough, "pay to participate in events" would be more appropriate - direction this game is taking at the speed of an avalanche.

Thank you guys for sharing your feedback, just letting you know that we're reading it all. Please keep it coming :)
If the feedback from the last events led to this, it's probably better if we all keep our mouths shut actually.
 

DeletedUser2818

Guest
I totally understand that the complete a research feels like its not an alternative at all to some players. This however does not mean its not true, the alternative is there and it's working, its just not useful for all players. I can tell you that that feedback has already been forwarded.
As to my own experience, yes i had scout quests, 2 in a row and you don't wanna know how long my scouts tak:ewink:, i used time boost on them. However i was lucky in the quests after that and barely got it again. My personal test experience doesn't change anything to the feedback though, we understand its a valid concern and I can only repeat that its already been forwarded.
But do you really? Surely you must've noticed the overwhelmingly negative feedback such quests had in previous events, so much so that in some instances you had to add alternatives such as vapors. So how did you even consider it in the first place? Desire to see how many thousands of diamonds us whales are willing to spend when we inevitable run out of time boosts, given scout times of 90+ hours? This is insulting to the intelligence of we, the whales (read: we, the people from which most revenue comes from). We might be whales but we're not fools and everyone's patience has a limit.
Do not for a moment think we don't see through this, for that'd be a terribly wrong assumption.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

lika1961

Well-Known Member
Much as I understand the need to stop people from getting 10 of the main prizes, there has to be a better way of doing it than scouting or research for end-stage players. It does feel like punishment when you have to scout for 5 days or more, no matter how you look at it. I will not use my time instants to progress through an event. Events are supposed to be doable with what we have. It seems like some players are out-thinking the developers and then everyone must pay for these abuses. Inno created the system where we all built small workshops and tier1s for every event and now that is a problem. Well, you should have seen that one coming. By rehashing the same old quests over and over and over, it has become predictable what the next lot will be and now you are shocked by that. Really? And the solution is to make it very difficult for some players?

I know quite a few people who don't have the normal number of boosted factories any more, so does that mean that they don't get to take part in this even? If it makes sense to anyone to build these factories and upgrade them to a high level to take part, I give up. They decided to get rid of them on purpose. Why would they now want to rebuild them?

The chatter about things that are done a certain way in FOE is bugging me a lot. If I wanted to play FOE, I would. If the devs need to "borrow" things from there for Elvenar, surely it goes without saying that they must be adapted in the correct way. The changes seem to be based on a picture of what players do and want that is not based in reality. We have given a lot of feedback and many, many suggestions and yet we keep seeing things that make it clear that very little of that is taken into account when designing or implementing elements of the game. The fact that the "Awesome" window is still in the FA that is running on live at the moment is a very good example of that. Why is it still there?

I play this game for fun and lately I have not had much of that. Perhaps it is time for the devs to stop being clever and condescending and think about what needs to be done to improve some of the issues that stop us from enjoying the game right now.
 

DeletedUser2818

Guest
I play this game for fun and lately I have not had much of that. Perhaps it is time for the devs to stop being clever and condescending and think about what needs to be done to improve some of the issues that stop us from enjoying the game right now.
They need to do so to keep us from going full Jim Sterling and exposing how much of a money-milking factory this game is becoming. I'm also 100% convinced our fun is the least of their concerns, given how they reacted to the previous events' feedback. Their main and perhaps only concern is to find way to coerce people into spending money.
 

Deleted User - 56274

Guest
.......
Spend 10 KP 47
Spend 10 KP 48

Shouldn't there be some sort of cooldown between the same quest?!
 

palmira

Well-Known Member
.......
Spend 10 KP 47
Spend 10 KP 48

Shouldn't there be some sort of cooldown between the same quest?!

at least it is not "Scout a province, no alternative" and the quest probably works, you are very lucky. After 5 scouts, I am now stuck with a bugged quest, sigh.
 

Deleted User - 56274

Guest
@palmira oh I know... I just have to wait (I refuse to BUY KP!) so that is fine, but still.... there is a definite frequency problem. All I can say is I think we should try to track quests as we are able
 

Bramblerose

Well-Known Member
we will see, its only day 2 (or almost 3 now) and im at about 2000 event currency, thats less then in mermaids, but not problematic yet (mermaids first quest was 40 currency and now was only 10, so doesnt feel like much difference yet).
I got lucky, I managed to do a lot of quest after each other this morning, hoping it stays this way. :)


if the alternative is collect 14 vision vapor, ill probably use time boosts on that aswell, since its more production after each other, and i dont like to wait 3-4 hours, if im playing 'now'
I have no other alternative I have to wait 4 days for the province
 
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