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Armory breeding ground has very bad math applied

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by edeba, Apr 12, 2019.

  1. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Your simia is a PERCENTAGE. You have faster training time with a smaller training size, but the percentage is the same, so say 5%. 100 troops takes a minute, bonus is 5 troop, 200 troops takes 2 minutes bonus is 10 troop. In two minutes, despite different training types, you end up with the same amount.

    What on earth does this have to do with orc production from the armory?


    Yes, it appears a fully upgraded armory is a highly inefficient piece that serves as ranking point sink.

    5 level 31 and 4 level 33 do not take up the same number of squares.

    4 level 31 is 4x280 = 1120 and 3 level 33 is 3x400 = 1200, so if training size is your goal, upgrade them.

     
  2. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    upload_2019-4-14_10-50-37.png

    I put the numbers from the wiki into a chart, so now working with orcs/day rather than 12 hours.

    So training size/square is constantly increasing, but what you see with the orc is an exponential increase over time, and then a slaughter. You got a 54% increase through sorcerers and halflings, or about 27% per chapter, and then a 62% increase through elements and alumi, or 31% per chapter, so you would expect around 34-35% increase and instead a 12% decline in per square production. Everything is the game is built around exponential increases, and this is especially true for orc requirements for catering in the tournament. So it should be a 34% increase, not a 12% decline. A 34% increase would give 69.55 orc/square which is actually 1950/day. That would be 1330 for 12 hour production.

    And very clearly, orc production is better if you do not upgrade.
     
  3. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    @edeba can you please drop that chart into a googlesheet and link it?
    I'd like to add in other factors like roads & pop & culture etc
     
  4. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    SoggyShorts likes this.
  5. Karvest

    Karvest Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    if you take SSS lvl 11 into account, you will get:
    4x31: 4*280+4*31*18= 3352
    3x33: 3*400+3*33*18= 2982
    The more SSS upgraded - the more upgrading 31=>33 is worse, but even at level 1 SSS 4x31 is better than 3x33 (1864vs1794) .
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  6. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Per square factoring in squares for buildings, res, culture and roads I see a
    a 3.45% Drop in training size
    a 26% Drop in orcs

    For me with a choice between 6 level 33 or 9 level 31 it's only a 5% difference...until you count the SSS

    The real killer is the SSS

    My city has 6 level 32 armories.

    If I upgrade them all to level 33
    I will need 387 squares for buildings, res, culture and roads
    With my level 6 SSS I'll get a total of 4776 training
    or
    If I replace my 6 armories with 9 level 31 armories
    I will need 393 squares for buildings, res, culture and roads
    With my level 6 SSS I'll get a total of 5868 training <-----a 22% increase!

    With SSS 11 it's 26% and SSS 16 it's 29%

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1D-Jz35fE2ZCDvFb2CYpF1QjihR1W2pernb2uG8IFqxI/edit?usp=sharing
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  7. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Here's a comparison of 6 level 33 armories vs 8 level 31 armories
    armories.png
     
  8. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Can we please get this fixed @Marindor ? I think we've clearly established that this is bug because of incorrect math being used to set it up.

    I know that even with an increase applied that takes into consideration the size increase, the increased orc requirement in the tournament still grossly exceeds this.

    I do not relish rebuilding these things and I am feeling quite burned that I saw my orc declining so I burned through instants to increase my armories thinking I was addressing the problem.
     
  9. Marindor

    Marindor
    Community Manager
    Elvenar Team

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2015
    @edeba It's not a game bug, but we are currenly looking into it for improvemt :)
     
  10. Dony

    Dony King of Bugs

    Joined:
    May 5, 2016
    i hope this stays as it is, same way as they are not dealing with balancing SSU across the board
     
  11. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    If my game comes to a standstill because of running out of orcs and blowing all of game resources racing to upgrade extra armories, as I saw there had been a high increase in demand, that I now need to tear down and rebuild, you will have lost gaining further purchases from me. I spend money so I can respond, and I did, and you've simply destroyed proper use of language because this wasn't an upgrade, it was a downgrade.

    So not bug, just inadequate math numeracy, critical thinking, analysis and/or proper use of language. Give me back my game resource so I can delete all of the goodies that I put out that now paralyze me from being able to rearrange, and give me back all of the time instants I used because that's what I purchased and I didn't get what I purchased because this wasn't an upgrade it was a down grade and should have with a warning.

    And after our more than 2 year wait for a response on the event building upgrades, why should have any trust for inno at all?

     
  12. palmira

    palmira Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    But they did change :) Have you seen today's announcement?


    We made some changes to the output of Orcs for level 32 and 33 Armories and for the provided population of level 20 Residences:
    • Armory 32
      • Bunch of Orcs (option 1): 810 orcs → 1100 orcs (cost: 26000 supplies → 35000 supplies)
      • Orc Clan (option 2): 1180 orcs → 1600 orcs (cost: 38000 supplies → 51000 supplies)
      • Orc Horde (option 3): 1730 orcs → 2350 orcs (cost: 55000 supplies → 75000 supplies)
      • Army of Orcs (option 4): 2500 orcs → 3400 orcs (cost: 80000 supplies → 110000 supplies)
    • Armory 33
      • Bunch of Orcs (option 1): 870 orcs → 1200 orcs (cost: 28000 supplies → 38500 supplies)
      • Orc Clan (option 2): 1280 orcs → 1750 orcs (cost: 41000 supplies → 56000 supplies)
      • Orc Horde (option 3): 1870 orcs → 2600 orcs (cost: 60000 supplies → 83000 supplies)
      • Army of Orcs (option 4): 2700 orcs → 3700 orcs (cost: 87000 supplies → 120000 supplies)
     
    Angeduciel likes this.
  13. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    No, I didn't see it. When does it get to live? That's where it is a problem, for me anyway... This is the range of what it should have been to start.

     
    Angeduciel likes this.
  14. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Yeah, this change does nothing for me. I couldn't care less about orcs, I build armories for the training size.:(
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019 at 21:40
  15. palmira

    palmira Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Actually, it didn't change, I recharged the armory and it is still producing 870 orcs ...

    Captura de ecrã 2019-04-15, às 21.40.39.png
     
  16. Karvest

    Karvest Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    @Marindor's announce is ahead of time, as usual, check it tomorrow.=)
     
  17. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    :(

    I am not thrilled with the improvement, but I feel saved from the need to tear down and rebuild and all the waste that goes with that.

     
  18. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Without further changes I will still be tearing down and rebuilding everything. 30% less of training queue is unacceptable
     
  19. shadowblack

    shadowblack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    The more I read the more I wonder if perhaps Armory levels 32 and 33 were supposed to be 3x7 instead of 4x7...
     
  20. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    or the good part of the upgrade was in levels 34 and 35 but they forgot to add those?
     

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