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Discussion Tournament Changes (post-release)

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
so it's not a sustainable practice.
I've heard that for years, but it is in fact sustainable since your income always goes up. Even waiting 6 months between chapters doesn't matter.
In the above example buying KP directly is at least 2x as efficient, probably closer to 4x when you factor in all 3 tiers of goods needed for that cater.

For his KP price to double would require buying 2800 KP for 6 BILLION coins, or to quadruple would be 11,000 KP for nearly 50 billions coins.
At his current level of coin production (16m per day assuming 170% culture and zero coin expenses) that would take him a little over 8 years.

People worry WAY too much about that coin cost going up.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
@edeba
Interesting.
So, you need 68,000 goods to cater 1 star, and let's say 68,000 for the second star. *
That's ten trips to the wholesaler, and you win 5KP, a PoP, and some relics.
or
Instead, you could just buy 10 KP directly.

*Considering that the second star is almost certainly more than the first, and that the T2&T3 goods don't trade at 1:1 with T1, the cost of converting coins into KP through the wholesaler looks to be even wors:efrown:
Well, that was province 32, and totally unsustainable.
This was the province 1 goods. I didn't record any in the middle, and I haven't studied how it is increasing.
pfQJVzG6ykfAjth9zfVDKOsqqEUrWaaaLrAJHhPweMFS6_A_kmd5EThCc65yYL4SVijlOwxS5shhPySwfSmR_fmEAMZ9Nmi4Z83YDRgP-o9-DrLAJClooSyK7c926zc_2kU9neaH


So, if I look at the goods with their 1.5 ratio, 940 + 2x 470x 1.5^2 is 3055 for province 1 and 30,000 + 23,000x1.5 + 15,000x1.5^2 is 98,250, and that is 32 times the goods of the first province, so I'm going to suggest that the goods required is a multiple of the first province the same way the troops go up. I will probably just go to province 24 or 25 this week. I burned through way too many resources this week.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Well, that was province 32, and totally unsustainable.
OK, let's revisit this next week, lemme know the costs of the "next" province after you stop. This is something discussed often on the forums and it'll be nice to have some examples. I'll check provinces 21 or 26 for myself since those are 1 past where I usually stop.
 

Jackluyt

Well-Known Member
What concerns me about the new mix of enemies is that many of the Encounters feature several or even all five enemy types. The old system, typically one only had to deal with a maximum of 3 enemy categories, which made choosing your army much easier.

We all know that the Barracks troops are 'generalists' - equally effective against two types of enemy. The Merc Camp and Training Grounds troops are 'specialists' - very good against one of the two possible enemies, and weak against the other.
It appears to me that having every fight featuring so many enemy types, it makes using the advanced troop types more difficult or even impractical, so for many Encounters I have reverted to Barracks Troops which have fewer losses on AutoFight.
This at a time when they have given us the ability to train in all three buildings simultaneously - so we can make lots and lots of 'advanced' troops - which we are less likely to be able to use.
In the current tournament, most of the Encounters needed a mixture of Golems and Archers, and it was difficult to use the 'advanced' troops on AutoFight, because whatever you chose, some of them were likely to get slaughtered.
I wonder if the developers considered this?
 

Deleted User - 84934

Guest
Hey guys,

We confirm that the optional research are interesting to take now with new tournament? I'm kinda afraid that it gets changed in the futur and we get screwed without any way to go back to what I have now (no optional researche done).
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
for now it has
2 pros: higher output of military AWs and easier fights on the map.
1 small cons: more troops to train for "train units" quests.
 

B-kvgg

New Member
What concerns me about the new mix of enemies is that many of the Encounters feature several or even all five enemy types. The old system, typically one only had to deal with a maximum of 3 enemy categories, which made choosing your army much easier.

We all know that the Barracks troops are 'generalists' - equally effective against two types of enemy. The Merc Camp and Training Grounds troops are 'specialists' - very good against one of the two possible enemies, and weak against the other.
It appears to me that having every fight featuring so many enemy types, it makes using the advanced troop types more difficult or even impractical, so for many Encounters I have reverted to Barracks Troops which have fewer losses on AutoFight.
This at a time when they have given us the ability to train in all three buildings simultaneously - so we can make lots and lots of 'advanced' troops - which we are less likely to be able to use.
In the current tournament, most of the Encounters needed a mixture of Golems and Archers, and it was difficult to use the 'advanced' troops on AutoFight, because whatever you chose, some of them were likely to get slaughtered.
I wonder if the developers considered this?
Do you think the developers and game designers considered anything else than KP cap?
 

Pauly7

Well-Known Member
And they HAVE been listening to us a bit more recently...
They have?

Personally I don't have any problem with the enemy types or the difficulty curve, or the rewards being less. The tournaments are actually a bit more interesting and less tedious than they used to be. However, it doesn't matter how much they change the difficulty I will always have a big problem with the fact that progress can have a negative impact on tournaments scores (whether that means upgrading AWs, placing expansions, or advancing through the tech tree.) They seem to have had absolutely zero interest in doing anything about that, even though it's a cut and dried FUBAR. The formula is just wrong how it is and will ultimately break the game. I think the only analysis that they have done relates to the here and now, with no thought to the future effect.
 

DeletedUser2262

Guest
So these changes finally hit live. This is probably not the place to vent my frustration, but not having anywhere else suitable to do so - here goes. I have a pretty advanced city on live (opposite to beta) with 2.2M RP, 566 wonderlevels and most relevant AWs at 31 or higher.
I used to come top 5 in the tournaments, doing some 50-80 provinces and scoring somewhere between 15 and 20K depending on the tourny and the competition.

Now, I'm seriously struggling to hit top 20 after the first round. At province no 36, I'm outnumbered 108K to 53K troops. Catering is 380K goods, and I'm blowing a lot of boosters to even get this far.

I do understand the reason for having to make the tournys harder, but right now I feel kinda screwed, and I don't see why someone with 600-700K RP should be able to blast their way past me with ease.

Feels indeed like my days are numbered.
 

Aeva

Well-Known Member
On live my first city does province 32 and then I am pretty much outnumbered. I am not losing, I have just not enough troups. I used to do between 50 and 60 provinces. That will not happen again.
My second city however does 25 provinces with ease and made the top 100 this evening (won't last, but nice nevertheless). I never came past 16 or 17 and then I was in serious trouble and needed a lot of time to recover. But now I will do this many provinces again tomorrow.
My first city is Elvenar and pretty serious and my second is a Fairy that lookes like a themepark.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
So these changes finally hit live. This is probably not the place to vent my frustration, but not having anywhere else suitable to do so - here goes. I have a pretty advanced city on live (opposite to beta) with 2.2M RP, 566 wonderlevels and most relevant AWs at 31 or higher.
I used to come top 5 in the tournaments, doing some 50-80 provinces and scoring somewhere between 15 and 20K depending on the tourny and the competition.

Now, I'm seriously struggling to hit top 20 after the first round. At province no 36, I'm outnumbered 108K to 53K troops. Catering is 380K goods, and I'm blowing a lot of boosters to even get this far.

I do understand the reason for having to make the tournys harder, but right now I feel kinda screwed, and I don't see why someone with 600-700K RP should be able to blast their way past me with ease.

Feels indeed like my days are numbered.

I really hate to say it, but going from how everything has been here on Beta, you are the exact kind of player Inno is looking to slow down with all the changes.
 

DeletedUser2262

Guest
I really hate to say it, but going from how everything has been here on Beta, you are the exact kind of player Inno is looking to slow down with all the changes.
I know, but it feels kinda weird. Been playing actively since release, buying loads of blue buldings and premium expansions, polishing +100 cities each day, and then one day Inno says - sry, this game ain't no longer for you.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
I know, but it feels kinda weird. Been playing actively since release, buying loads of blue buldings and premium expansions, polishing +100 cities each day, and then one day Inno says - sry, this game ain't no longer for you.
That's called a bait and switch. We already paid for things in our game based on what the game was. We did invest into a superior game and they did change it drastically, and no different then if you bought a new car and switched it for a 20 year old rust bucket.

.
 

DeletedUser2705

Guest
Ugly tournaments, gentlemen, you have issued! You only gave the advantage to the pushers. Not for beginners! Those pushers who have pumped their wonders before your change can no longer be afraid that honest players will catch up in the rating. Pushers who are just starting out will easily bypass honest players. If your game is tailored specifically for players who violate the rules of the game, then change these rules of yours and legalize pushing. I have been playing for a long time, and it is because of pushing that I do not give you a dime from the head of the dwarfs. And I won't.
Your new tournament is rubbish. There are provinces, there is an army (more than 2000), but not to go through as before. Slow down what? Building miracles, passing technologies? No! We created another pushing problem. An ingenious move.
 
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Deleted User - 89361

Guest
Although we were able to get all 19 chests in the live server, the joy is more for having achieved them all than for the rewards received. With over 50% of the enemies being Heavy Melee, the marble one should be one of the easiest tournaments in the new cycle, so players can afford to go deeper even if the rewards are not worth it.
The problem is going to be when the hard tournaments arrive, especially the one based around the Mistwalker, where the rewards you can win in the chests will in no way exceed the amount of losses you will face. In those weeks there will be no motivation to risk so much just for 10 AW KP and 1 RS for each additional chest.
I just hope that in the same way that you did with the Spire, you will improve the quality of rewards that can be obtained in the 11-19 chests. This way many players, especially veterans, will stop feeling the shared frustration they have now in having to work harder to earn less than before.
 
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