Multiple fire phoenixes are ruining the game

[DeletedUser2262]

In my live server there is now a player with two fully evolved fire phoenixes thanks to the phoenix artifact crafting conversion back in the previous event.
This is completely ruining the tournaments as this player is now constantly doing twice the provinces as anyone else.
Thx to the extra dmg, he/she is at the top of the tournaments with +60 provinces, +15K points and +700 KP. Each and every week.

This imbalance would need to be addressed somehow.

 

[CrazyWizard]

This is beta not live, you should start the argument there.
Btw I do more than that with 1 phoenix. (74 provincies this week)

 

[iDavis]

Imbalance? Why? His second fire phoenix fell from the sky? No, he made an effort to get him so why just not let him having advantage?

 

[Asween]

not someone having more phoenixes or bears is ruining game, but jealousy and false accusations is ruining your own pleasant gaming. relax enjoy your city and let others be

 

[Lovec Krys]

@erroniel The only reason he is able to do so many provinces is that he has scouted and cleared them.
For example right now I'm on my live server 7th with 14580 points (54 provinces) - my current maximum. So even with unlimited number of phoenixes/bears I wouldn't be able to do more points, since I'm limited with my scouted and cleared provinces.
So having 2 fire phoenixes is an advantage, but not the main reason for his points.

 

[DeletedUser2262]

First, my live server isn't an English one. At times we even haven't had our own community manager.
Secondly, many of us over there have scouted enough to do +75 provinces each week.
We've also maxed all important AWs, and the lack of multiple Brown Bears aren't really hampering us too much.

Ofc, the subsequent Fire Phoenixes didn't come free for anybody, but as it is right now we don't stand a chance in the tournys any longer.

 

[CaptObvious]

I think an important point has been missed. The type of person that put in the effort to get 2 full fire phoenix would still be at the top of the leaderboard if inno had not added any of the evolving buildings. The people that try harder and put more into the game are always going to achieve more. This is not an imbalance, this is how life works. Second minor point, this person did not just win a second fire phoenix. Assuming that he did not already have 2 placed from the original event, To have 2 now he would have had to have one the second one at the original event and has waited a year to get the evolving artifacts to evolve it. If the second one was now balanced this would be very unfair. Many people have had more than 1 for a year. Also have you considered the amount of effort to keep 2 firebirds fed every week (and also feed the bears)? There is nothing stopping you from putting that amount of effort into getting unleashed buildings or similar.

 

[Karvest]

Those who have 2 fire phoenixes on live should have them both evolved from the beginning. To get second fire phoenix base they needed to win 27 artifacts as well. Wasting them on other phoenixes if you got second fire one is nonsense.
Beta is another story, here we got another opportunity to get second base for a few weeks, and get it fully evolved without spending a lot of money one year later.

 

[Lovec Krys]

@erroniel With 75+ prov. scouted you are talking only about real veterans.
In a few days It will be my 3rd anniversary and I'm not even near the 75+ provinces.
There might be a few dozens of them at each server max.

 

[CrazyWizard]

Those who have 2 fire phoenixes on live should have them both evolved from the beginning. To get second fire phoenix base they needed to win 27 artifacts as well. Wasting them on other phoenixes if you got second fire one is nonsense.
Beta is another story, here we got another opportunity to get second base for a few weeks, and get it fully evolved without spending a lot of money one year later.

should or doing it are 2 different things.

First, my live server isn't an English one. At times we even haven't had our own community manager.
Secondly, many of us over there have scouted enough to do +75 provinces each week.
We've also maxed all important AWs, and the lack of multiple Brown Bears aren't really hampering us too much.

Ofc, the subsequent Fire Phoenixes didn't come free for anybody, but as it is right now we don't stand a chance in the tournys any longer.

this sounds contradicting,
If everyone had scouten 75+ provincies (which is really hard as I am around that number myself with 5 years of playing elvenar, but I can see people might have spend a lot of timeboosters to improve that number.
60 while it's a lot, it's not 75+ which means there is always a player somewhere going all out in a week, and surpassing that player.

Thats how it worked untill recently when I started to max out my provinces regulary.

As some people pointed out the fire phoenix while very good ain't godlike, in the most tournaments it's power can be countered with a single combat building on the competitors side.

Many have pointed out that maxing out all your provinces with 3 bears is easy, and you just need to click it all away while in reality it ain't.
People with 2 bears are often challenging me (unsuccesful)

It's way more complicated and I assume this is also the case with this double phoenix player.
I use every trick in the book to my advantage and I need every trick to be able to get the scores I get in the tournaments. it's not "just because I got 3 bears and the most provinces unlocked, I actually do several other tricks to be able to max out my performance. without those I would not be able to perform that strong on every single tournament, I might dominate many of them but I can't dominate all.

People who in general get/know all of my tricks either don't have enough provinces unlocked or arent far enough in the game to use them all.
People who complain ofen aren't able to see what else they can do to improve there game.

These people just see 1 thing and then conclude thats the reason not understanding the other factors involved.
I would suggest looking carefully beyond the phoenix and try to figure out / understand how this player is doing it and what things you might be able to do to counter it.

 

[DeletedUser2262]

The point is, since it's no longer possible to get to multiple fire phoenixes on live, the ones that do have a permanent advantage.
No matter what the rest of us do, we will never catch up.
True, they may have spent a small fortune on getting there, and yes - feeding them may require some food, but they will always easily beat the rest to the top.
Doing +60x6 on manual isn't really an option timewise, the dmg boosting AWs max out on 30, boosting troops production with time and supply instants isn't sustainable in the long run, neither is popping a few Mage Multipliers or Enlightened Light Ranges as they are pretty scarce in crafting.
Besides, none of this will get you an advantage as pretty much anyone can do the same.
Lastly, the rich will always get richer as they have more spare KPs to sink in their AWs.

 

[Asween]

do not place MM, ELR and UUU when you have few! wait until you have a lot of it! then place all and see what happens

 

[Arthus]

There's no solution to that other than permament deletion of Phoenixes.
If 20+ bear buildings and multiple fire phoenixes were released without any intervention of team during event, then this means that it was meant to be like that - for other people to never catch up to them.

If it was meant to catch up, we could create another fire phoenix in academy.

At the moment we are not even allowed to get same buildings as people 3 years ago, we are getting much worse rewards in events than them.
They got 30+ wishing wells and strong sets, we get 1 KP and 1 relic and evolution building with halved pop/cult.

Considering how much people left the game in last month in live and ammount of ghost cities we have, i think you should just lower your expectations as everyone else did and eventually switch to FOE which rewards players with nice buildings. There is more chance for meteorite to strike than situation in Elvenar getting repaired right now.

 

[Elvercikk]

@Arthus (beta forum) koval (Pl forum) demonides (US forum) Please, stop sowing confusion everywhere. Do you have accounts in all forums and make your life more enjoyable? Do you like FoE so much? then go there... You are always unhappy... Why do you tire yourself and others?
Let players breathe... Let others play... thank you.

 

[chris0707070707]

I think an important point has been missed. The type of person that put in the effort to get 2 full fire phoenix would still be at the top of the leaderboard if inno had not added any of the evolving buildings.

I couldn't agree more. On live servers I play, evolving buildings didn't change anything at the top of the leader board.

No matter what the rest of us do, we will never catch up.

The second fire phoenix gives that person an (deserved) advantage, but no one with two Fire Phoenixes plays in "god mode". I think that he/she might have a huge advantage in planks, crystal and silk tournaments, but in all the other tournaments it's a matter of just one additional ELR/MMM, so the difference is not such a big deal. It certainly doesn't make that particular player unreachable and untouchable in every single tournament.

This is completely ruining the tournaments as this player is now constantly doing twice the provinces as anyone else.

Well, that's telling me that all the others must be doing something wrong... It is perfectly possible to do all the provinces you have with just one Fire Phoenix, at least from time to time. I think this guy you are talking about is possibly just a very good player, which is a much bigger advantage than the second Fire Phoenix... One additional Fire Phoenix doesn't explain "twice as many provinces" in any way.

 

[CrazyWizard]

The point is, since it's no longer possible to get to multiple fire phoenixes on live, the ones that do have a permanent advantage.
No matter what the rest of us do, we will never catch up.
True, they may have spent a small fortune on getting there, and yes - feeding them may require some food, but they will always easily beat the rest to the top.
Doing +60x6 on manual isn't really an option timewise, the dmg boosting AWs max out on 30, boosting troops production with time and supply instants isn't sustainable in the long run, neither is popping a few Mage Multipliers or Enlightened Light Ranges as they are pretty scarce in crafting.
Besides, none of this will get you an advantage as pretty much anyone can do the same.
Lastly, the rich will always get richer as they have more spare KPs to sink in their AWs.

This totally depends on what they do in the future, again the true limiting factor is petfood, as long as in the future they bring out more combat related pets this dependency on pet food will balance things out.

I am extremely carefull with my petfood use, and have modified my town around it, I also use tactics to preseve petfood.
Yet my 3 bears, 1 polar bear and 1 fire phoenix use as much petfood as I average collect in a week, and I use way less pet food than you might imagine with those buildings. everyting I do is to balance everything around 6-7 pet food a week (which I noticed is about the average you get on the long run a week)

If another building would arrive in the game I have start to make choices, I have to use different tactics at using my bears to preserve more pet food so I might use it for another "new pet" this obviously will hurt my bear production a bit but shows how stretched I already am in this regard.

So more pets in my opinion is the long term solution and it doesnt have to be every event, just 1-2 pets a year will do.
Rome wasnt build in a single day, and so should a new account from a new player. it takes time to power up your town.

 

[iDavis]

@Arthus just why should we be allowed to get buildings from 3 years ago? Your post is just a confirmation that you can't see farther into game balance than just a brief player's view who wants to have a "population".

@CrazyWizard my pet setup is exactly the same, and basically what I thought about when deciding, how to save pet food but still get max profits from pets, was transfering pet food costs into another resource costs, which we can get more, and simpler. And time boosters was my way to go for. Spire provides me every week 33+ 5-hour boosters, which are more than enough for me to play tourney on max (all brown bears are fed once a week and a lot of training queues skipped by boosters). Timewarp + polar bear makes 100% time shortening, so feeding fire phoenix once a week is enough.

 

[chris0707070707]

I use a simple (and obvious) method to decrease the amount of pet food required for bears.
I've built as many armories as possible, increasing training size to a point, where my total combined training time in mercenary camp and barracks = 2 x 78h. It means all my trained units are being harvested just once a week after feeding my 5 bears (8 bears in my second city, but it doesn't count, it's an extreme case), so there is no need to train additional units using time boosters. I haven't used them for that purpose for 6 months by now and I still train enough units to complete all available provinces (80-90+) every single tournament. I use time boosters for additional heavy map scouting instead, which makes it easier to keep an advantage over competitors as far as the total number of provinces is concerned.
Total cost in pet food /week = 5x Brown bear + 1x Fire Phoenix + 1x Polar bear = 7

Two backup plans for a shortage of pet food (which hasn't occurred yet):
1. Training units using time boosters (as @iDavis does)
2. Spending diamonds from Spire on additional recipes in the MA

 

[CrazyWizard]

@Arthus just why should we be allowed to get buildings from 3 years ago? Your post is just a confirmation that you can't see farther into game balance than just a brief player's view who wants to have a "population".

@CrazyWizard my pet setup is exactly the same, and basically what I thought about when deciding, how to save pet food but still get max profits from pets, was transfering pet food costs into another resource costs, which we can get more, and simpler. And time boosters was my way to go for. Spire provides me every week 33+ 5-hour boosters, which are more than enough for me to play tourney on max (all brown bears are fed once a week and a lot of training queues skipped by boosters). Timewarp + polar bear makes 100% time shortening, so feeding fire phoenix once a week is enough.

I do exactly the same.
The point is you need to make a choice at some point how to solve your pet food issues. there is a finite limit on how many pet food you can spend (without spending diamonds)

Two backup plans for a shortage of pet food (which hasn't occurred yet):
1. Training units using time boosters (as @iDavis does)
2. Spending diamonds from Spire on additional recipes in the MA

Aint that a win=win for innogames?
Nice city btw, a little bit overkill with 22 bears and 10 moonstone libraries, I like the intention of it but i'll guess you can't feed them all

For me personally 3 brown bears, 1 polar was enough, the others had 2 bears so from a competitive point 1 more was enough
I also contemplated to unlock more provinces, but mainly for certain tournaments where I actually can max out.
I also started to make notes because for some reason after 9 weeks I can't always reproduce the result from 9 weeks before, so whenever I find a good trick now that works I note it down so I can refer to it 9 weeks later.

I am also experimenting more to see where I can improve.

 

[chris0707070707]

For me personally 3 brown bears, 1 polar was enough, the others had 2 bears so from a competitive point 1 more was enough

Agreed. Taking into account the amount of time boosters we get from the Spire every week, 3 brown bears are more than enough. The fourth or the fifth bear wouldn't allow anybody to complete more provinces, they would just help to spare some time boosters. I'm talking about my "normal" city with 5 brown bears, I never consider my other city (with 8 brown bears, the one you took a look at) an example worth talking about. It's an unrepresentative, extreme case and a total overkill.

Nice city btw, a little bit overkill with 22 bears and 10 moonstone libraries, I like the intention of it but i'll guess you can't feed them all

One of the reasons for placing (and now keeping) that whole zoo in the city was to <cough> "please" a certain player. I think you know who I'm referring to . If he "loves" my bears so much, who am I to keep them out of his range of view ?

I am also experimenting more to see where I can improve.

That's exactly what keeps me engaged in the game. Some players wait for the game to adjust to their play style, some other prefer to adapt their play style to the changing game conditions, looking for even small improvements. That's what this game is all about (at least for me).

Coming back to the topic, I agree that two Fire Phoenixes alone can't be a sufficient factor for this player's supremacy. Neither it could be 3 bears, nor a huge number of provinces, nor anything else alone. It's always a combination of many different factors. Btw., I know a player with 3 brown bears, who is just terrible at tactics and can't achieve even average results, no matter how hard he tries