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Discussion Release Notes version 1.105

chris0707070707

Active Member
Needless - Maybe later, still far from 30, 31+ low priority
Flying Academy - Worth upgrading 31+, mid priority
Victory Springs - Worth upgrading 31+, low priority
Simia - Worth upgrading 31+ - top priority
All I decided to upgrade beyond level 30 is Simia (units are very important for me),
I just wonder...
Needles and Victory Springs low priority, Flying Academy mid priority, but Simia top priority ?

From the tournament player's point of view it's not economical at all, for following reasons:

1. Needles, Flying Academy and V. Springs are much smaller than Simia, therefore the cost in KP's of one additional level is much lower.
2. One additional level of Needles, Academy and Springs gives you +2% of training speed. Simia gives you +1% per level.
3. Last but not least - training speed bonus from Needles, Flying Academy and Victory Springs receives additional bonus (so to speak) from Brown Bears. Bonus from Simia does not.

In my opinion it's much more profitable to upgrade Flying Academy, Needles and Victory Springs first, 5 additional levels give you 12% more units. If you have one Brown Bear, you get additional 50% of that 12%, so effectively additional +6% (18% altogether). With 2 brown bears additional 12% (24% altogether) and so on. Five additional levels of Simia give you only +6%.

My plan is to upgrade Flying Academy first, since I consider 3-stars units from mercenary camp to be most useful in my play style, then I'll upgrade Neeedles and then Simia (I don't have Victory Springs at all).
 
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Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
Elvenar Trade Center becoming MVP for me nowadays...

Shame Enar's Embassy and Labyrinth are still waste of space... Rework proposition got totally ignored here and i don't get why...
Biggest Wonders and totally useless... Same as Spire Library
could you explain to me what MVP means? I tried to find out, but am really clueless
 

chris0707070707

Active Member
that is not true for level 31+, every wonder has same cost of every resource
We don't need to spend KP's for level 31 for obvious reasons, are you sure the cost in KP's for levels 32-35 is the same for each wonder ? That would be strange, but it wouldn't even surprise me ;)
 

Dony

King of Bugs
they said 31+, not level 31, and yes it is the same, thats why i have said few days ago that i dont agree with balancing here at all
2300 KP from 34 to 35 for every wonder even abyss
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@chris0707070707 You shouldn't count brown bear(s) bonus to the wonders, it increases unit production not wonders bonus. Also if you level up those 3 wonders instead of Simia, their need for KPs combined is higher than KPs need of Simia.
I'm certainly upgrating them too, only at a slower pace than Simia. But they will get some levels while I'll be gathering orcs for the 31st Simia level.
 

Arthus

Well-Known Member
could you explain to me what MVP means? I tried to find out, but am really clueless

MVP is most valuable player, reward often given in sports, mvp of match or tournament MVP, most often in volleyball
It means that for me, Elvenar Trading Center is the best of the wonders, the way it makes production spell stronger and prolongs it so much.
 

chris0707070707

Active Member
@chris0707070707 You shouldn't count brown bear(s) bonus to the wonders, it increases unit production not wonders bonus.
I am sorry, but you are wrong. Upgrading Needles/Flying Academy/V. Springs does have an effect on the brown bear bonus (in opposite to upgrading Simia). I'll give you a fictional example how it works. Let's assume we have:

1. Barracs at level 37. Lets assume that our basic training speed is exactly 1 squad per hour (without Needles)
2. Needles at level 30 (+100% training speed), so we effectively train 1+1 squads per hour.

Let's call that combined production "base production". In this example "base production" = 2 squads/h. It's the base needed for further Simia- and Bear bonus calculations.

3. Simia (level 30) +40% "gathering bonus", in our example = 0.8 squads
4. 2x Brown bear (level 10) +100% "gathering bonus", in our example = 2 squads

Case1:
Let us see what happens if we upgrade Simia to level 35 (+46% gathering bonus).
"Base production" does not increase, it's still = 2.
Let's calculate squad production per hour for "Base production" = 2, Simia at level 35, Needles at level 30 and two brown bears.

Total production = "Base production" + "Base production" x 0.46 + "Base production" x 2 x 0.5 = 2 + 0.92 + 2 = 4.92 squads/h
The most important thing for our discussion is the fact,
that brown bear bonus = 2 squad/h. Upgrading Simia to level 35 does not change that bonus.

Case 2:
Let us see what happens if we upgrade Needles to level 35 (+112% training speed).
"Base production" does increase, now it's = 1 + 1.12 = 2.12
Let's calculate squad production per hour for "Base production" = 2.12, Needles at level 35, Simia at level 30 and two brown bears.

Total production = "Base production" + "Base production" x 0.40 + "Base production" x 2 x 0.5 = 2,12 + 0.85 + 2.12 = 5.09 squads/h
The most important thing for our discussion is the fact,
that brown bear bonus = 2,12 squad/h. Upgrading Needles to level 35 does change that bonus, it makes bears even more effective.
Upgrading Simia does not.
 
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DeletedUser1657

Guest
unless your training only from one military building you need to factor in your comparing the bonus of 3 wonders to that of 1 wonder. that is 3 times the kp. It is situational for each person as to which is better.

The thing that surprises me most is the update is targeting such a tiny portion of the player base. We have seen updates delayed because not enough people would benefit, I suppose extra wonders levels is not too complicated to program in hence why it doesn't matter.
 

DeletedUser2262

Guest
Whatever floats your boat. :)
The Elvenar Trading Center is one of the few wonders I didn't care to build.
 

Dhurrin

Well-Known Member
I calculate 30-60 days to have enough orcs to 1 embassor research .... and Needles .... 265K orcs, the price are really insane.
Why the light ranged damage does not rise, it is ridiculous because when we add 2 military building (100% (base) + 2x50% + 50% (phoenix) + 40%) ... really 1% does matter ?
Same for the other military wonders. At lvl 30, any of them will have your units do 30% extra damage, which means it averages at 1% / lvl. Considering the amount of KPs needed to bring them that far that seems pretty well balanced. Adding an additional 1% per level (or even 0.5% / level) hardly seems unbalanced, especially if one weighs in the fact that both mages and light ranged already can be upped way more than that by placing the MMM and ELR and all units can benefit from the up to 50% extra damage from the Firephoenix. Or more for those who have more than 1 of those.
So denying that little bit of extra benefit seems to really make it extremely unpractical to actually upgrade them, even more so considering the fact they do count against the Spire difficulty.

Seems Inno chose (again) the worst possible solution: do give players the ability to upgrade AWs above 30, but take away the primary effect and yet do have them count against the Spire. That kinda feels like punishing a player for doing so.
If THAT is the solution I personally feel that is worse than not having the ability to upgrade them further. For me -and most of the players- it is much more practical to invest in other AWs to bring them closer to 30 since those do get the full benefit of being upgraded.
 

Dhurrin

Well-Known Member
I just wonder...
Needles and Victory Springs low priority, Flying Academy mid priority, but Simia top priority ?

From the tournament player's point of view it's not economical at all, for following reasons:

1. Needles, Flying Academy and V. Springs are much smaller than Simia, therefore the cost in KP's of one additional level is much lower.
2. One additional level of Needles, Academy and Springs gives you +2% of training speed. Simia gives you +1% per level.
3. Last but not least - training speed bonus from Needles, Flying Academy and Victory Springs receives additional bonus (so to speak) from Brown Bears. Bonus from Simia does not.

In my opinion it's much more profitable to upgrade Flying Academy, Needles and Victory Springs first, 5 additional levels give you 12% more units. If you have one Brown Bear, you get additional 50% of that 12%, so effectively additional +6% (18% altogether). With 2 brown bears additional 12% (24% altogether) and so on. Five additional levels of Simia give you only +6%.

My plan is to upgrade Flying Academy first, since I consider 3-stars units from mercenary camp to be most useful in my play style, then I'll upgrade Neeedles and then Simia (I don't have Victory Springs at all).

My Simia is at 16, so not even close to it being an issue, but it would definitely be top priority. It is 1% of troops harvested. With the brown bear activated and some timeboosters from the Spire that little percentage from the Simia very quickly becomes a major factor.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
I think where the lightening bolt shows up for an inactive crystal manufacturer looks like it is on the one placed next to it. It is a 4x7 size and it is crazy that this indicator isn't clearly over that 4x7 space.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Gems is well done.
1589719638022.png


T1 works, but is crap compared to gems.
1589719727568.png


With crystal, the bottom one is idle, but the snooze indicator is very clearly over the one beside it.
1589719784464.png


Here's a better picture, the one under construction is idle...
1589720028641.png
 
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