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Discussion Chapter 16: Embassies

Arthus

Well-Known Member
For those who have completed chapter 15 and seeing the sentient goods needed for chapter 16, what do you think is the "best" or at least a decent number (and at what leve) of T4,5,6 manufactories a city should have?
I have two steel sentient at level 24, two crystal sentient at level 24, and 3 elixir sentient (one at level 25 and two at level 24).
I kind of made a spreadsheet to see if it is better to upgrade my two sentient steel manufactories to level 31 or build an extra one to level 24.
If my numbers are right, of course I see an increase in the production per square but you give up some population/culture.




I have 2 moonstone sentient at lvl 31, not gonna put anymore.
Also it depends if you have storm phoenix. If you have you will be more than pleased with two lvl 31.
Remember that you can efficiently trade T5 and T6 for T4 if you need it. T6 is not as needed at T4 in chapter 16.
Chapter 15 looked much more demanding with sentient goods.
 

DeletedUser1953

Guest
It seems that for Human Silk Factory in chapter 16, the factory level 25 is 25% more productive than factory level 28-31 if you take into account pop & culture. Inno misses something ?
It is like armory & T1 factory in chapter 15, building only for the score but less effective.
This game is very strange, often, upgrade to be less powerfull (new SS, badder ratio), only better score and reduce the factory production and increase the cost (tournament in chapter 16). Even the new AW has a score ability ! For me, it is demotivating.
 
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Richord

Well-Known Member
This chapter is a VERY GOOD and WELL BALANCED challenge!
having just a few 100k in stock of T1-3; then you need to review your city.
If you barely have any orks and mana, then you need to review your city.


This new chapter give us new challenges and we need to adapt:)
and that, is a GOOD thing.

Without change and increasing difficulty, this game would be boring. or in non subjective words; standing still.

A game without increasing difficulty for quests etc, but with stronger buildings, is off-balanced. This new chapter isn't!

T4; 1 seems enough (with wonders and spell) T5-6; 2.
 
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Dony

King of Bugs
I actually dont think first part of the chapter is well balanced at all
If you dont have BTG, 1 of only 2 production buildings will be idle most of the time, and since you cant build more of this type of buildings only way to produce in this buildings simultaneously is to use time booster or diamonds in senate. I wouldnt call this well balanced at all, it will get better later on with higher levels of buildings, but start is unbalanced. Maybe they overlooked something.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
I actually dont think first part of the chapter is well balanced at all
If you dont have BTG, 1 of only 2 production buildings will be idle most of the time, and since you cant build more of this type of buildings only way to produce in this buildings simultaneously is to use time booster or diamonds in senate. I wouldnt call this well balanced at all, it will get better later on with higher levels of buildings, but start is unbalanced. Maybe they overlooked something.

I mainly dislike the 3h production window of the portal, thats a main part of the chapter, it's quick and you always have downtime unless you don't sleep.
I rather see double production for at least double time. to solve that part
 

Arthus

Well-Known Member
This chapter is a VERY GOOD and WELL BALANCED challenge!
having just a few 100k in stock of T1-3; then you need to review your city.
If you barely have any orks and man, then you need to review your city.


This new chapter give us new challenges and we need to adapt:)
and that, is a GOOD thing.

Without change and increasing difficulty, this game would be boring. or in non subjective words; standing still.

A game without increasing difficulty for quests etc, but with stronger buildings, is off-balanced. This new chapter isn't!

T4; 1 seems enough (with wonders and spell) T5-6; 2.


If this chapter was well balanced it would be not needed to skip million orcs with portal profits. I'm worried that 99.9% players will do it like always.

Orc ammounts in my opinion should be lowered significantly and something else should fill the gap, like living goods or normal goods.

Orcs to make beer? No logic here.
 

Deleted User - 81190

Guest
If this chapter was well balanced it would be not needed to skip million orcs with portal profits. I'm worried that 99.9% players will do it like always.
While PPs used to be a luxury item as there was no way to acquire large amounts of it, this has changed. Just like time instants, PPs are a part of metagame now. I am gaining more than 17% PPs a day on average (not to mention that I have Vortex of Storage now), what am I supposed to do with them?

Not using PPs nowadays is akin to only catering and not fighting in tournaments. You can do it if you really want to, but it is clearly an inferior choice, efficiency-wise.

Orc ammounts in my opinion should be lowered significantly and something else should fill the gap, like living goods or normal goods.
And what would that accomplish, exactly? So instead of armories and orc nests, you'll need to spam manufactories. What's the difference?
 

Arthus

Well-Known Member
While PPs used to be a luxury item as there was no way to acquire large amounts of it, this has changed. Just like time instants, PPs are a part of metagame now. I am gaining more than 17% PPs a day on average (not to mention that I have Vortex of Storage now), what am I supposed to do with them?

Not using PPs nowadays is akin to only catering and not fighting in tournaments. You can do it if you really want to, but it is clearly an inferior choice, efficiency-wise.


And what would that accomplish, exactly? So instead of armories and orc nests, you'll need to spam manufactories. What's the difference?

Without it it's pointless to build chapter's production buildings because i can skip everything with just portal standing.
What's the point of hiring artists and persons who create lore of the chapter, all the buildings etc if that's not needed?
What's the point of building whole settlement if you will be punished by the game because people with PP with skip it in 1 month, conserving more than million of orcs and tons of goods?

We're screaming on other forums that PP are abused and there's too much of them everywhere, especially 50% PP shouldn't be in spire.
There is just too much, race settlements are no longer needed

I remember when i made Forest Elves Chapter (we have Forest Elves not Woodelves and we have "Wood" not "Planks" T1)
It made portal profits mean something, especially 10% one was rare and powerful
They were addition to help going through the chapters, not to allow to skip 10 chapters forward.
 
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Deleted User - 81190

Guest
Without it it's pointless to build chapter's production buildings because i can skip everything with just portal standing.
What's the point of hiring artists and persons who create lore of the chapter, all the buildings etc if that's not needed?
What's the point of building whole settlement if you will be punished by the game because people with PP with skip it in 1 month, conserving more than million of orcs and tons of goods?
Really? You can skip this whole chapter with PPs? You can avoid building settlement? You (or anyone else) can complete this chapter in 1 month - PPs or not? I would like to see that. And conserving orcs and goods? That's like saying that fighting in tournaments conserves catering costs. Well, duh. And unlike tournaments, it's not like you're avoiding the costs completely.

And LOL, lore for the chapter. That's what, 2 pages? And I am being generous here.
 

Richord

Well-Known Member
the balance in the beginning; is that we can't skip stuff. that's good.
with 4 armories, i've millions of orks with 4d collections. no skipping needed:)
 

DeletedUser2630

Guest
To make sure. If we go through PP, what is necessary to build? Is the portal enough or everything like last time?
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
To make sure. If we go through PP, what is necessary to build? Is the portal enough or everything like last time?

You need everyting excluding the mediation circle
This is the setup I came up with for my town
1586416702029.png


You also need this production the entire chapter as some researches up to the very last one require you have non pp goods to finish.
About half the researches you can PP away. the rest is old school again.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
If you want to follow questline you will need to build some Circles aswell
yuck!! ill guess I figure out a way to wriggle myzelf trough the questline near the end of the chapter when productions are met.
I'll just wait for the spoiler, there is always a way, first job is to get tyrough the chapter.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
Who cares about questline, I'm not going to have half of my city teleported for half year. That would completely destroy my tournament & Spire abilities (not mentioning no building upgrades meanwhile).

Some are writing that this chapter is balanced, my opinion is that this chapter is a way to cripple your city for half year.
 

Arthus

Well-Known Member
Non-PP settlement (25x19) under spoilers to conserve topic space.

Chapter 16.png
Elven Architect version with lowered tea houses
1586425404639.png
 
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Deleted User - 81190

Guest
You also need this production the entire chapter as some researches up to the very last one require you have non pp goods to finish.
Not necessarily. As intermediate goods are uncapped, once you produce enough for the chapter you can dismantle the settlement (sans portal). If you produce fast enough, this can happen significantly earlier than the end of the chapter.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Not necessarily. As intermediate goods are uncapped, once you produce enough for the chapter you can dismantle the settlement (sans portal). If you produce fast enough, this can happen significantly earlier than the end of the chapter.

It depends on how fast you can fill up those researches,
Players who are that dedicated enough to even "count the numbers" are in general also the players who are active in the tournaments.
And those get KP faster then they can produce those goods, because 1 thing is sure, the race junk production ain't fast.

btw I somewhat hate and like this "slow approach" and I ephasised to my felowship members that slow is the right way (even if I go fast).
That way they can find for them the prober balance between tournaments, spire and chapter.
 

Deleted User - 81190

Guest
And those get KP faster then they can produce those goods
If they're doing 10K+ points each tournament then maybe. My projections indicate that I will be bottlenecked by KP intake by quite a bit - that's with about 5K tournament points every week. And I didn't budget for ginormous settlement either.
 
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