Lovec Krys
Well-Known Member
@Loki Blue It seems that it's the same in all servers. Like we beta players didn't tell that coming.
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Discussion Spire of Eternity
- Thread starter Marindor
- Start date
Loki Blue
Well-Known Member
Yep. That's one of the reasons I shared that link.
CrazyWizard
Well-Known Member
The response on the dutch server is pretty mild compared to all other servers in languages I can read.
DeletedUser2576
Guest
Checked that on live servers with several players, that should be at the same progress point except of the wonders.Hi guys,
The Spire difficulty is based on a lot of factors, Ancient Wonder levels being by far the smallest of them. Their influence is very little, but yes, as you progress in the game, the Spire difficulty increases with that and AW levels are just one of the many parameters (as said: the smallest in fact) by which account progression is measured
The difference between the lowest and the highest guy ist a cost increase 80%+ , sorry but paying 80% more stuff is not "very little", more like very critical...
CrazyWizard
Well-Known Member
Then stop being vague please and release the formula instead. This solves both the misunderstanding and at the same time we can actually properly discuss the new formula so it can be improved if needed@Syonis It's simply not possible that increase comes from AW alone
DeletedUser2576
Guest
Even if it's not the AW a +80% cost increase is ridicilious.
Maybe a difference of 20% for people in the same chapter is fine but 80%, thats almost double the cost.....
In most games these formulars are published to be transparent.
Maybe a difference of 20% for people in the same chapter is fine but 80%, thats almost double the cost.....
In most games these formulars are published to be transparent.
Arthus
Well-Known Member
My whole fellowship said that this spire is a total fail. Half of polish servers resigned before 2nd floor.
Waste of army before important tournaments. @Marindor idk what creators think in IG central, but please let them know that whoever created this fail should be fired.
Moving on, chapter 15 please.
Waste of army before important tournaments. @Marindor idk what creators think in IG central, but please let them know that whoever created this fail should be fired.
Moving on, chapter 15 please.
Deleted User - 86059
Guest
Again @Arthus please be respectful and again we will not be moving on in this discussion as it is the discussion for feedback for 'The Spire'.
I am not a tournament junkie so I use the Spire a lot as I use my MA constantly I like the CC's and the fragments. I do admit I'm not a fighter and only convince option and I actually enjoy it.
I am not a tournament junkie so I use the Spire a lot as I use my MA constantly I like the CC's and the fragments. I do admit I'm not a fighter and only convince option and I actually enjoy it.
SirSmithy
Well-Known Member
I like the idea... as a regular Guild Expedition player in FOE.
What I don’t like is the tweaking. For example 2nd floor 2nd meeting, the negotiation game requested 490k gold from me. I have the gold cap right now on 34kk. This means 68 tries maximum, which is pretty lame. You have 5 possible gifts for the ghosts and 3 tries. You can easily burn all you resources before you can progress. And it is not even on the 3rd floor...
Please consider to lower the requirements.
What I don’t like is the tweaking. For example 2nd floor 2nd meeting, the negotiation game requested 490k gold from me. I have the gold cap right now on 34kk. This means 68 tries maximum, which is pretty lame. You have 5 possible gifts for the ghosts and 3 tries. You can easily burn all you resources before you can progress. And it is not even on the 3rd floor...
Please consider to lower the requirements.
Elvercikk
Member
@Arthus vel koval Infinity spiers entered our servers yesterday.
We are just testing them and you already have statistics saying that half of PL servers resign from entering the second floor of the spire?
Please speak in your threads only on your behalf. You are not our representative here on beta.
The spire, of course, has its drawbacks, but this is no reason to dump your frustrations here.
It was known all the time to pass the spire one had to be properly prepared for it. It can't be done from a march
.If anyone thought otherwise, he was is wrong.
Arthus
Well-Known Member
Whole forums speaks same as me so get out of my comment.
The spire is fail and should cease to exist.
Elvercikk
Member
I do not deny that the spire is to be worked out and it is happening all the time. There are players who like it.
Nobody wrote that it would be easy to go through. So instead of pouring out your regrets, prepare well for it.
Don't speak for me and other people who see something good in the spire.
the spire is an addition to the game and is not a mandatory element of it and IG does not force anyone to enter it.
Start writing for myself ok?
Marusia
Member
This is not true (I read polish forum on regular basis, including your posts there). Your comment here is simply untrue. Btw.:, I can not recall allowing anyone to speak in my name, so please stop using terms like "polish players" or "polish forum" Everyone has the right to post his/her opinion here, but please speak for yourself. Thank you in advance
Since I left my comfort zone anyway, I can provide my personal opinion on the Spire as well. I consider the Spire a challenge, but nothing that could not be mastered. Perhaps I will not be able to master it this or the next week, but one day... who knows
For the time being I consider the Spire to be a cheap source of spell fragments for the first few fights on the first level.Arthus
Well-Known Member
This is not true (I read polish forum on regular basis, including your posts there). Your comment here is simply untrue. Btw.:, I can not recall allowing anyone to speak in my name, so please stop using terms like "polish players" or "polish forum" Everyone has the right to post his/her opinion here, but please speak for yourself. Thank you in advance
Since I left my comfort zone anyway, I can provide my personal opinion on the Spire as well. I consider the Spire a challenge, but nothing that could not be mastered. Perhaps I will not be able to master it this or the next week, but one day... who knows
Speak for yourself and your amazing fellowship. Thank you. Majority disagrees.
I just lost 5kk gold and 100k of every resource to fail a trade offer with 2h booster as a reward. This is beyond pathetic.
Marusia
Member
I just did.
That is exactly the point. I have no right to. All I am asking you for is to try to avoid speaking in the name of anyone else but yourself, "polish players" in particular. You are not my representative. Thank you.
Marindor
Well-Known Member
Alright guys, back on the subject please instead of personal attacks, thank you
@CrazyWizard as far as revealing our formulas, you know of course that we don't do this. We collect the feedback from player experiences, compare it to our data and analytics and monitor if things are going as planned. What I can say about it in general is this:
Unless a wonder is totally useless for your playstyle (e.g. Shrine of Shrewdy Shrooms if you never fight), every Ancient Wonder will give you more benefits than you would need to make up for the minimal increase in costs for building/upgrading one of these Ancient Wonders.
A highly advanced player will have an easier time in the Spire than a Chapter 3 player. By moving the full difficulty progression away from squad size upgrades (Research) and provinces (expansions/city size) to our new formula, we discourage players from unintended and borderline exploitative play styles, such as staying on Chapter 4 and ONLY improving Ancient Wonders and Relic Boost. This is especially unfair for those players who grow their cities normally and subsequently have a disadvantage in Tournaments against players who do use these strategies, which is why the Spire difficulty calculation is not solely Chapter based, but takes many more things into consideration. Every single variable in this formula, such as the Ancient Wonders, will give you more benefits than it increases costs. This is especially true when comparing with the Tournaments, where Research and Provinces would give you less benefit than costs, while Wonders and Relics would just give you benefits without any cost increase.
Our goal is that every player can participate in the Spire, while players on higher Chapters have a slight advantage, but lower Chapter players still have very good chances at making progress in the Spire if they use their available resources wisely. Of course we will also conduct our usual Analyses and watch the data closely, to see if this goal is achieved. If it isn't, we will make the necessary adjustments.
@CrazyWizard as far as revealing our formulas, you know of course that we don't do this. We collect the feedback from player experiences, compare it to our data and analytics and monitor if things are going as planned. What I can say about it in general is this:
Unless a wonder is totally useless for your playstyle (e.g. Shrine of Shrewdy Shrooms if you never fight), every Ancient Wonder will give you more benefits than you would need to make up for the minimal increase in costs for building/upgrading one of these Ancient Wonders.
A highly advanced player will have an easier time in the Spire than a Chapter 3 player. By moving the full difficulty progression away from squad size upgrades (Research) and provinces (expansions/city size) to our new formula, we discourage players from unintended and borderline exploitative play styles, such as staying on Chapter 4 and ONLY improving Ancient Wonders and Relic Boost. This is especially unfair for those players who grow their cities normally and subsequently have a disadvantage in Tournaments against players who do use these strategies, which is why the Spire difficulty calculation is not solely Chapter based, but takes many more things into consideration. Every single variable in this formula, such as the Ancient Wonders, will give you more benefits than it increases costs. This is especially true when comparing with the Tournaments, where Research and Provinces would give you less benefit than costs, while Wonders and Relics would just give you benefits without any cost increase.
Our goal is that every player can participate in the Spire, while players on higher Chapters have a slight advantage, but lower Chapter players still have very good chances at making progress in the Spire if they use their available resources wisely. Of course we will also conduct our usual Analyses and watch the data closely, to see if this goal is achieved. If it isn't, we will make the necessary adjustments.
DeletedUser2576
Guest
there a tons of games available that share these formulars. What do you have to hide?
The data, which we collected only shows one thing: The higher your wonders are, the more fucked you are resulting in up to 80% cost increase.
When comparing the smallest and the highest score, the city with the lowest score has everything more (troopsize, provinces, e.g.). the only thing (we know at the moment) that is higher on that second city is wonders.
So if you are saying it is not about the wonders we should open bug reports about it?
As stated above. People in the same chapter should never be separated by more than 20% cost difference from my point of view.
Atm this will just result in people with high wonders ignore the spire and doing tournaments. if thats intentional that people should ignore the spire. well done
CrazyWizard
Well-Known Member
Alright guys, back on the subject please instead of personal attacks, thank you
@CrazyWizard as far as revealing our formulas, you know of course that we don't do this. We collect the feedback from player experiences, compare it to our data and analytics and monitor if things are going as planned. What I can say about it in general is this:
Unless a wonder is totally useless for your playstyle (e.g. Shrine of Shrewdy Shrooms if you never fight), every Ancient Wonder will give you more benefits than you would need to make up for the minimal increase in costs for building/upgrading one of these Ancient Wonders.
A highly advanced player will have an easier time in the Spire than a Chapter 3 player. By moving the full difficulty progression away from squad size upgrades (Research) and provinces (expansions/city size) to our new formula, we discourage players from unintended and borderline exploitative play styles, such as staying on Chapter 4 and ONLY improving Ancient Wonders and Relic Boost. This is especially unfair for those players who grow their cities normally and subsequently have a disadvantage in Tournaments against players who do use these strategies, which is why the Spire difficulty calculation is not solely Chapter based, but takes many more things into consideration. Every single variable in this formula, such as the Ancient Wonders, will give you more benefits than it increases costs. This is especially true when comparing with the Tournaments, where Research and Provinces would give you less benefit than costs, while Wonders and Relics would just give you benefits without any cost increase.
Our goal is that every player can participate in the Spire, while players on higher Chapters have a slight advantage, but lower Chapter players still have very good chances at making progress in the Spire if they use their available resources wisely. Of course we will also conduct our usual Analyses and watch the data closely, to see if this goal is achieved. If it isn't, we will make the necessary adjustments.
Do you mind that I have zero faith in your companies "balance" expertise. as they have proven to be failures time after time.
In the past we twice warned you about the shortcommings within hours after release on beta. and our feedback never made any impact at all.(province based + SS based)
all that feedback was thrown on the garbage pile, shit upon and lauged at.
So pardon me for not accepting your words as a truth. Your track record in this case is at best rubbish.
You claim the new formula has no weak spots, wel I have already heared people claiming the exact opposith,
Who am I to believe? I think the players have a better track record in this that the devs. so for now I believe them.
I am already fearfull that this will be implementen to the tournaments in the future as well as "how will I be screwed over this time?"
In the past we had formula's explained (combat), so we don't reveal our formula's is not entirely valid, eventually we will figure it out, it just takes a bit longer.
To me this sounds like, "we have obscured the formula so you won't be able to show how we screwed up again this time at least not before we are long past the implementation time."
Lets be fair with all the feedback the players have given you over the past many weeks, you had the opportunity to warp this feature into something great, Instead of going back to the drawing board (accepting the feedback) and look how you could really made it work, (this feature could have been perfect for non-fighting/non-tournament players) the team kept there tunnel vision made some minor alterations and called it "listening to feedback". but the truth is no one listened (at least in a position of power),
Lets be fair, this feature is targetting a different group of players? do you guys even know what that is?
Lesson nr 1: Elvenar is not FoE, FoE has 2 distinctive groups of players, PvP enthousiasts, and Non-PvP enthousiast playing on a PvP enabled game.
Here we have 2 different groups with overlap that you can cater 2, the Guild expeditions also do not bite with the other features.
Elvenar on the other hand has no PvP, if I have to split them into groups we have 1. Fighting/tournament enthousiasts, 2. Negotiators /Fighting haters, Hyperactive players and casuals.
Now explain to me how the Spire caters to a different group of players?
Casuals? they do 5 battles and give up, Active players, thats your group, especially those who don't mind to spend some diamonds.
Now Fighting enthousiasts? they already have the tournaments that offer better rewards than what we get from the Spire. the only reason I play spire is for the building that improves my tournament. and only catering as long as possible to avoid biting my tournaments.
The spire on the combat part DOES bite with the spire.
Negotiators? they can't play the spire without fighting, at least not on a permanent basis.
Coint and Supplies can't be supplies fast enough to keep going in any way shape or form. even with all the might my main account has, it's simply not possible. 1800K coins with a 34M coffer, any clue how fast that coffer will be drained, and I have barely scratched the surfice (1st room 2nd stage)
Similar with supplies.
For one you might have 300% supply boost spells, and then you still don't have enough. you might have 600 unlocked provincies and you still cant after full neighbourly help sustain the needed coins. The instant coin/supply replenishing boosters are not a stable way to do a spire run.
Does anyone in the building actually play the game for real, someone who understands the players and the game? because to me this looks like a pen and paper testing style. without any real experience what it is to play a game. A player would have never accepted the current SS based tourney, would have never allowed the dragon abby in game and some other mayor errors from the past.
Unlike guild expeditions with a gradual and easy entry into it, the spire has a to much to steep entry curve, and it's perception is expensive (perception is everyting). and the prizes suck.
It's a good looking complete failed attempt of implementing the guild expeditions in elvenar. and all the feedback from past few weeks in my opinion was totally ignored. beta, live after the initial positive impression most of the players have shown a negative sentiment towards it.
It's the same feedback we had on beta, and it never made any difference, it got to live in pretty much the same way as it was originally released on beta.
I'll guess you're next response will be that it's a huge succes according to your numbers, but you thats with everyting thats new, give it a few weeks and then try to say the same without lying. you won't be able to. it will never be the success it was on FoE ever in it's current implementation.