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Discussion Spire of Eternity

DeletedUser

Guest
I think the logic is backwards here. High chapter players spend a longer time at a chapter than lower chapter players. If it takes me a month to get through a chapter and 6 months to a year for a higher chapter player, they should replace buildings while lower chapter players should upgrade as well as replace.

The 4 new buildings I thought were meant to be more permanent buildings. If I have to demolish, re-evolve year after year, I may just punch someone.

I’m in agreeance here, it is more beneficial for lower chapter players to have better access to royal restoration spells than high chapter players.
 

ekarat

Well-Known Member
@Crowella
Blueprints (and their promised eventual ability to upgrade event buildings) used to be the holy grail of rewards- something to grind away at and to gather a group of like-minded players together to strive for that ultimate achievement.

The addition of a conversion rate and a sprinkling of RR's to give lower achieving FS a taste was imo a deliberate design choice while maintaining that sense of accomplishment.
The more RRs that become available from other sources the less motive there is to reach for that goal, and Elvenar has few enough goals as is.

I can't be sure, but I also think that the 10 chest groups out there feel a sense of obligation to their fellows and players who might fade away from the game in the 7 months between chapter releases stick it out to not let them down. But...There's a very very real chance that's just me projecting.

I'm in the same boat -- at the end of content and supporting a 10-chest FS.

No, there are not as many RR spells as people want. But if RR spells were commonly and easily available, then there would be no incentive to get more event buildings, as we'd already have all the best ones from previous events, using RR spells to keep them relevant.

Why do an event to get buildings that are worse than the buildings I already have?

Scarcity of RR spells is necessary to keep events relevant.

At this point, the only resource I really need are diamonds, and tournaments don't give me those. (I make KP faster than I can spend it on swap threads. I think our FS needs more/larger swap threads. I have about 1300 KP in instants, and I have no idea how many KP worth of coin rains, since you can convert coins to KP. So, maybe KP is the second best resource, but I need diamonds more.)
 

DeletedUser2817

Guest
And let's consider, how many such a buildings players have, how many RRs do they cost to upgrade, how many do players get (even in non 10 chest FS), and compare.

Yes, let's. I'm in a 6-chest fellowship. This means I get 2 RRs a week, which means I can upgrade my Fire Phoenix every 8 weeks. I am about to enter chapter 4; by the time I am able to upgrade my fire phoenix to chapter 2 in 5 more weeks, I will probably be nearing chapter 5. It will take an additional 24 weeks or 6 months total to get my fire phoenix to chapter 5, by which time I will probably be wishing it produced mana or something.

This is why I contend that it would not be seriously unbalancing to the game to provide individual opportunities to gain RRs, so that for example I might be able to upgrade one building like the Fire Phoenix every 4 weeks rather than every 8. Or maybe even have two buildings that are quite special that I upgrade.

I have other buildings that I will not choose to upgrade but will rather replace with new ones, but even so, with the current rate RRs are available to MOST of the playerbase who are not in 10-chest fellowships, it makes sense to have RRs also available from another source.
 
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Karvest

Well-Known Member
The main benefit of Fire Phoenix is not affected by it's chapter at all.
Progressing 6-chest FS to 10-chest FS takes a few months (we did it in 4.5 months a year ago).
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Are the battles going to change weekly? While I can make golems, my first military wonder is the needles of the tempest which is for light ranged.
I tried the first battle again and my loss was about 522 supplies, which I believe is better than the convince, guessing game. and got the delicious cc's spells since I have none... Sweet.
 

DeletedUser2817

Guest
Being lower-level player doesn't mean having no/limited access to RRs. Our smallest fellow is from chapter 4, and get same 15 RR's per week as high chapter players.

Your fellow who is in chapter 4 is an exception. Most players in lower chapters are not in 10-chest fellowships. In fact, most players IN GENERAL are not in 10-chest fellowships. You might argue that is a reason for more fellowships to try for 10 chests. That is one way of looking at it. I would suggest that the game open up more diverse ways of progressing. And I say that as a player who likes tournaments and regularly puts up scores that are quite high for a newer player. (The past tournament is a bit of an exception since I made some adjustments to my tournament play based on timing quests for the event.)

I think the game is better when players have more alternatives. Rather than having only one way to get from point A to point B, it's more fun for more people to have options.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I think the game is better when players have more alternatives. Rather than having only one way to get from point A to point B, it's more fun for more people to have options
Alternatives are good, but if players can fairly easily complete ALL options it can quickly dilute the game.
E.G. if we can get RR from
  • Tournament chests
  • Converting BP
  • Fellowship Adventures
  • Eternal Spire
  • Visiting neighbors
  • Crafting challenges
  • Forum Contests
  • Event Prizes
That might seem like a good thing because it offers many routes from A to B, right? The problem is that players will either do all of the above and have a glut of RR ruining game balance, or players will only do what is easiest for them ruining the challenge of the game.
Your fellow who is in chapter 4 is an exception. Most players in lower chapters are not in 10-chest fellowships. In fact, most players IN GENERAL are not in 10-chest fellowships.
I'm not sure about the EN servers, but on the US servers, everyone who wants to be in a10 chest FS can be regardless of chapter.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
Your fellow who is in chapter 4 is an exception. Most players in lower chapters are not in 10-chest fellowships.
I was the same chapter 4 player when joined this FS. And it was only 6-chest FS at that time. But it took only few months to make it 10-chest FS. Here, on beta, where the number of active tournament players is way less than on live servers.
Yes, that require some recruitment policies and FS rules, but it is not so hard to do if the most of your FS want to grow up to 10 chests.
BTW, a bunch of our members was also at chapter 4-5 when joined us, both on our way to 10 chests and after it.
 

Deleted User - 86059

Guest
Errr no @Crowella this is a thread for feedback, not for arguments and neither is any other thread so if you want to argue with each other then take it out of the forum. Blueprints and RR spells will continue to be highly prized items and if a player wished to acheive them then the effort is needed.
I hope that is clear enough as has already been stated by all CM's and as far as the forum is concerned @Marindor 's word is final.

So now you have made me slap legs I hope you will both now behave and go to your respective corners for a time out.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
@crow, it's not a strawman, each and every one of those possible sources for RR has been suggested by players. Obviously not at the same time, but still every new feature that is released someone asks for RR to be a prize.

IMO 15 possible RR per week from ALL sources seems about right. That's 780 per year. Even progressing at a very fast 1.5 month per chapter that is 5 Phoenix-sized buildings that are permanently upgraded to the max.

If the spire was to give 1,2, or 3 RR as prizes I think that an equal number should be removed from the tournament, and from the earlier chests of course.

I am sorry(and surprised) to hear that you didn't get into a 10 chest when you were looking did you have conversations with the AM's? What were their reasons for not taking you in?
 

Deleted User - 86059

Guest
@SoggyShorts did you hear me??? this is for spire feedback not a back and forth. So again please stop. You both are having a conversation so please take your conversation to that thread. Enough already
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
I think a minimum participation level is really important to move a FS to a 10 chest goal. It can be really difficult to move forward when 20-40% of your FS is either doing just a province or nothing at all.

40k of points is 1600 each average, 2000 each if you have 5 really weak, and 2500 each if you have 10 really weak tournament players.



I was the same chapter 4 player when joined this FS. And it was only 6-chest FS at that time. But it took only few months to make it 10-chest FS. Here, on beta, where the number of active tournament players is way less than on live servers.
Yes, that require some recruitment policies and FS rules, but it is not so hard to do if the most of your FS want to grow up to 10 chests.
BTW, a bunch of our members was also at chapter 4-5 when joined us, both on our way to 10 chests and after it.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
@SoggyShorts did you hear me???
I certainly did, did you read my post?
Feedback on the Spire rewards and a discussion of whether or not RR should be considered for them is relevant, no?
Or are we only allowed to give feedback directly and not discuss others feedback?
If that is the case it should be made clear, and in fact, no one should be able to even see each other's posts.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
I had some thoughts about the Spire, and I really can't see it's usefullness.

Unless another bunch of new game mechanics are introduced dat rely on the Spire to function I dont see it.

Tournaments are kinda clear.
Without tournaments ther is:
  • No real possibility to aquire 700% production bonus
  • You won't be able to use your magic academy well, nor will you be able to craft well.
  • The few ways to quickly gain extra KP for your knowledge tree / wonders.
  • A good way to aquire runes from wonders when a new chapter arrives and those wonders arent plenty in the marktet for runeswaps.
Now the Spire.
  • Aquiring Diamonds (Go wishing Well)
  • Small chance on magic buildings (Go wishing wells)
  • Spellfragments (we are swamped in events, aquire and destroy somthing big)
  • Catalist spells (the only thing I like especially if you don't have a lvl 5 academie or de tournament capability to aquire enough relics)
  • A Unique Set (that will potentially destroy the T2 market, as it only makes scrolls scrolls and scrolls, it's a great way to aquire more T2, but everyone who uses it will need to swap those scrolls for somthing else or has nog need for scrolls anymore destoying the marketplace for scroll boosted players)
The last part of the spire list is a real thread to game balance, I would say that at least that set building needs to be reconsidered to be at least T2 depended on your own bonus good. as for example the winter set was.
But that destroys the sets theme, essentially needing to start it over all again but that's still better than destroying the market.
 

Deleted User - 62044

Guest
I had some thoughts about the Spire, and I really can't see it's usefullness.
Unless another bunch of new game mechanics are introduced dat rely on the Spire to function I dont see it.

1.000.000 % i agree
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
A Unique Set (that will potentially destroy the T2 market, as it only makes scrolls scrolls and scrolls, it's a great way to aquire more T2, but everyone who uses it will need to swap those scrolls for somthing else or has nog need for scrolls anymore destoying the marketplace for scroll boosted players)
Maybe it's good. We can all just cater the scrolls tournament since we need troops for spir:egrin:
 

ekarat

Well-Known Member
I had some thoughts about the Spire, and I really can't see it's usefullness.

Unless another bunch of new game mechanics are introduced dat rely on the Spire to function I dont see it.

Tournaments are kinda clear.
Without tournaments ther is:
  • No real possibility to aquire 700% production bonus
  • You won't be able to use your magic academy well, nor will you be able to craft well.
  • The few ways to quickly gain extra KP for your knowledge tree / wonders.
  • A good way to aquire runes from wonders when a new chapter arrives and those wonders arent plenty in the marktet for runeswaps.
Now the Spire.
  • Aquiring Diamonds (Go wishing Well)
  • Small chance on magic buildings (Go wishing wells)
  • Spellfragments (we are swamped in events, aquire and destroy somthing big)
  • Catalist spells (the only thing I like especially if you don't have a lvl 5 academie or de tournament capability to aquire enough relics)
  • A Unique Set (that will potentially destroy the T2 market, as it only makes scrolls scrolls and scrolls, it's a great way to aquire more T2, but everyone who uses it will need to swap those scrolls for somthing else or has nog need for scrolls anymore destoying the marketplace for scroll boosted players)
The last part of the spire list is a real thread to game balance, I would say that at least that set building needs to be reconsidered to be at least T2 depended on your own bonus good. as for example the winter set was.
But that destroys the sets theme, essentially needing to start it over all again but that's still better than destroying the market.

* I got 700% bonus without tournaments. So, not necessary.
* I don't have problems with magic academy or crafting, so I don't see what you mean.
* I can produce thousands of KP at a moments notice. I get them faster than I can spend them on swap threads. (Although that's more of a problem with swap threads, since I can't in good conscience claim that KP aren't *useful*.)
* I have plenty of runes.

I have plenty of these rewards, with the possible exception of even more KP to dump into AWs. What I don't have is diamonds.

Wishing wells:
* take up space in your city
* expire after a time
* have limited opportunities to acquire
* don't produce diamonds all that often

Except for the Unique Set, which I don't need, those other prizes are exactly the things I'm short of. I don't have a lot of magic buildings, spell fragments, or catalyst spells. They are things I can actually use.

So, maybe drop (or change) the unique set and maybe add some KP, but please don't take away the diamonds.

Oh, and definitely change the fighting difficulty. Experienced players should not be stuck as much as they are.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
* I got 700% bonus without tournaments. So, not necessary.
Then you never use your academy, pure from the world map you need to do +- 563 provincies or so. (500 * 9 / 8 = 563)
You also get a few most day's with neigborly help, a maximum of 3, at the same time the wonder you talk about are also draining massive amounts of bonus relics.
Off course it is possible, it just takes a humongous amount of time.

* I don't have problems with magic academy or crafting, so I don't see what you mean.
Off course if you don't use it at all you won't notice a problem. making spells cost runes and an acadmy making catalist spells can eat up to 252 of each of the 3 required runes in a 9 week cycle. there is no way on earth you can get even sligtly close to that with anything else than tournaments, no world map or neighbourly help chest can combat that loss.

* I can produce thousands of KP at a moments notice. I get them faster than I can spend them on swap threads. (Although that's more of a problem with swap threads, since I can't in good conscience claim that KP aren't *useful*.)
Thousands? wow I most likely can't even with a goods stock like this. and even if I can that production won't last long
upload_2019-6-11_16-46-20.png

* I have plenty of runes.
So do I,
upload_2019-6-11_16-47-47.png

I was talking about new wonders when a new chapter arrives.
Alll of this doesn't help when a new chapter arrives. runes from the brand new spanking wonders are "rare" there is a reason my sapiens and timewarp runes are still at the bottom of the list.

I have plenty of these rewards, with the possible exception of even more KP to dump into AWs. What I don't have is diamonds.

Wishing wells:
* take up space in your city
* expire after a time
* have limited opportunities to acquire
* don't produce diamonds all that often
That they don't produce diamonds all that often is a huge misconception.
Yes they do take up space, if you want to farm diamonds you need to reserve some space and time. this is the thing the spire doenst ask from you, but the diamond generation with effort can be huge!
And then I mean huge I really mean huge.
upload_2019-6-11_16-51-30.png

This is the diamond production of less than a month on 1 of my accounts, this is on the dutch server so no nastty multi server tricks to farm diamonds on other servers from the same country and then spend it on 1. it is not uncommon to aquire more than 300 diamonds on a day. there are some crappy day's but also lucky days with 450 diamonds as a record for me.

If you place 1 wishing well it goes nowhere but when you place a whole bunch it goes fast.
A single wishing well on it's life span assuming you harvest as efficient as possible produces approximately just under 500 diamonds.

Except for the Unique Set, which I don't need, those other prizes are exactly the things I'm short of. I don't have a lot of magic buildings, spell fragments, or catalyst spells. They are things I can actually use.

So, maybe drop (or change) the unique set and maybe add some KP, but please don't take away the diamonds.

Oh, and definitely change the fighting difficulty. Experienced players should not be stuck as much as they are.
 
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