Discussion Spire of Eternity

[SoggyShorts]

you need golems or orc strategists for that one. And probably some combat buildings aswell. In manual fight, you'd probably have it easy. But in general, everything that has range on enemy side is a lot harder on auto then in manual

I tried a few combinations involving those last night, always lost 2-3 stacks first wave and then died. I think you're right and I'd need to use a few UUU (which isn't sustainable at all)

@Muf-Muf

1. Can the timewarp affect the spire durations? Is that something that can be added?

2. Re:rewards instead of coin&supply I think KP packs and anything that is already offered is better.
When we win a prize, the feeling

• if we get our top pick is "Yay, I won!"
• if not our first pick, but anything other than C&S is "OK, not too bad, I can use that"
• but if it's a coin or supply instant it's a loss, not even a win at all.

To put it into perspective,

• a 10% coin rain gives me 4.1m coins. That isn't even enough to buy 3 KP.
• a 20% supply instant gives me 820K supplies. That will buy 1,250 magic dust. I make 200,000 per day.

3. Since this feature is going to be rather demanding on our troops(even after some tweaking I'm guessing) perhaps adding an Unleashed Unit Upgrade as a prize in some stages would be a good idea.

 

[Dony]

3. Since this feature is going to be rather demanding on our troops(even after some tweaking I'm guessing) perhaps adding an Unleashed Unit Upgrade as a prize in some stages would be a good idea.

its already there, called dwarven armorer, gives 50% hp

 

[M3rLiN]

The spire system seems good, though I am on level 3 with little troops, so I was not able to test very much, maybe a troops boost to help

 

[Deleted User - 60107]

Thanks again! What would those rewards be for you, then? What would you like to see instead of the Coin Rain and 1h Boosters?

Well, let's look at what is already available in the tournaments: KP (and KP Packages), Enchantments, Runes (which you guys have named Rune Shards for some reason - never understood why) and Broken Shards. So I suggest leaving those types of rewards for the tournaments and out of the Spire.

Rewards you can offer in the Spire:
- small chance (10%) for (Lots of) Units - if you're going to force us to waste a ton of units, at least let us have some back. This is especially important for players in the early chapters, who have only 1-star and 2-star units while the enemies are all 3-star uinits.
- various buildings (such as good event buildings (so no unircorns!), Unleashed Unit Upgrade or the buildings that produce units)
- Diamonds
- small chance (10% at most) for Lots of Goods - since Diplomacy seems like it will be quite expensive
- Spell Fragments
- Combining Catalist and Portal Profit spells
- Royal Restoration spells, with the exact numbers increasing the further in the Spire you go
- small chance (5%) to get a Blueprint after a boss fight. ONLY after a boss fight

 

[Dony]

Regarding rewards, i like spire set and other buildings, i hate coins and supplies instants, there are too many of them, diamonds are OK but i dont feel rewarded when i get 15 diamonds, or 50 diamonds from last boss where squad size is 19K in 3 waves, i would add 1 KP reward on top of 15 diamonds
I have problem with Djinn, which is a new version of Wishing Well, it is low chance to get, and when we finally get it, guess what, 50% from reward pool are coins and supplies, Yay

and since many people dislike gambling, every encounter can have guaranteed reward on top of what we have now, its easy to find 16 different small guaranteed rewards per map

 

[DeletedUser]

Hi all!

Thanks once again for all of your feedback. It took a while to read it all, but I'm all caught up again! It's great to see that so many of you are posting your thoughts about the Spire - both the good and the bad. Both will help us to see what we are doing well, and what areas may still need some improvements. We're also very thankful for the numerous bug reports you've created, as this will definitely also help us improve the Spire. Thank you!

@Muf-Muf thank you for taking the time to read all the feedback, but sadly you didn't pay any attention to my feedback. To be clear, I'm very serious about this. I've seen (through my work) a lot of heartbreaking situations, due to addiction, including gambling addiction! I know that Elvenar doesn't force you to spend real money, but it does entice you to keep going for that change to win something good, and seduce you to spend real money buying diamonds to get there. There are still a growing number of underaged players playing Elvenar. Do you really want them to get in the hype of spending more and more?

And why those everything in Elvenar has to become a gamble??????
Why do you need to have a lucky streak, to get your reward?????

• I’m most certainly getting fed up with this love for the one-arm-bandit. You need a lucky draw in:
• Event chests
• Wishing Well
• Crafting in MA, especially the main reward, for which you have to craft a lot of useless things.
• Neigbourly help chests
• And now also in this.

ENOUGH ALREADY!

 

[Heymrdiedier]

Thanks again! What would those rewards be for you, then? What would you like to see instead of the Coin Rain and 1h Boosters?

what about an instant that refills x% of your troops? since thats the biggest issue we have now. troops dissapearing too fast (actually we've been saying that since battle revamp). So if you get a chance of getting more troops then you lost, then maybe its worth it for some.

Or maybe a ressurection spell, you can use that to ressurect your troops after a battle, just like you can do now allready with diamonds.

what i also like about GE compared to spire, is that you have 10 attempts a bit like the kp bar. You loose 1 attempt each time you fight/try to negotiate. when all your attempts are up, you need to wait till it refills (1 refill an hour). I like that way much more then the gates with timers. If you do it like that you can also reward extra attempts after a fight.

 

[Deleted User - 60107]

what i also like about GE compared to spire, is that you have 10 attempts a bit like the kp bar. You loose 1 attempt each time you fight/try to negotiate. when all your attempts are up, you need to wait till it refills (1 refill an hour). I like that way much more then the gates with timers. If you do it like that you can also reward extra attempts after a fight.

Correction: It's 8 attempts, not 10. But you can also earn extra attempts as reward for completing some encounters, which could bring you above the max, and you can also buy extra attempts for Medals or Diamonds.

And yes, I too prefer the "limited attempts" option to the Gates used in the Spire - it's a lot more flexible.

Related to that, another question for @Muf-Muf :
In FoE we sometimes get quest objectives such as:

Solve X encounters in the Guild Expedition
Solve X encounters in the Guild Expedition by fighting
Solve X encounters in the Guild Expedition by negotiating
Solve X encounters in the Guild Expedition by fighting without losing in-between
Solve X encounters in the Guild Expedition be negotiating without losing in-between
Have the first difficulty of the Guild Expedition solved

Will we get similar quest objectives related to the Spire?

 

[Lovec Krys]

@shadowblack Are those quests only for GE? Meaning they would be only as part of the Spire? Because get such quests in let's say event would be an event killer (choosing between finishing an event and skipping tournament). Now we simply have option to ignore Spire if we want to do tournaments.

 

[Deleted User - 60107]

That shows a problem with Elvenar's events. In FoE such objectives are never all that hard. A few examples from an upcoming event:
Quest 17: "Solve a moderate negotiation OR Solve 5 encounters in the Guild Expeditions"
Quest 27: "Gain control over a province OR Solve 12 encounters in the Guild Expeditions"
Quest 48 - 20 June: "Have the first difficulty in the Guild Expedition solved OR Defeat a large army"

Or from the previous event:
Quest 21: "Gain control over a province OR Solve 12 encounters in the Guild Expeditions"
Quest 46: 8 May 2019 "Complete 6 encounters in the Guild Expedition by fighting OR Acquire 4 sectors without fighting"
Quest 52: 14 May 2019 "Defeat a small army OR Solve 5 encounters in the Guild Expeditions" and "Pay some coins"
Quest 55: 17 May 2019 "Have the first difficulty in the Guild Expedition solved OR Defeat a large army"

All of those quests are easily doable in FoE. In Elvenar... not so much...

 

[DeletedUser1953]

@Muf-Muf
2) Any plans to reduce squad sizes before the end fo the current round? Because the current squad sizes are TOO BIG!!! Example:
Encounter 7 has 3258 (my squad size) vs 3617 (enemy squad size). My regular squad size (on the World Map) is 2463. In other words my squad size in the Spire is ~50% bigger than my regular one, and this is just halfway across the first part of the Spire. Squad sizes are way too big, resulting in very large lossers.

About which rewards are worthless:
Coin Rain 10% and Supply Windfall 10% are the two most useless, followed by 3 Booster 1h. Please remove them and replace them with something that is worth sacrificing our troops for.

You are lucky, only 50%.
For my print screen, current squad size : 918, battle : 3683, thus 4x (or 300% increase) ^^
If we do (3704x2)/3683 => 2011%
=> it is like a tournament province 80 star 9 !! And often star 6 is complicated, but star 9 is crazy ! Except of course with light ranged & mage if you put some miltitary building, but you need to synchronise the spire with tournament or extend life of military building to 7 days !

Booster 3x1h can be good to use on portal ! But sure, the 10% is only for fragment and spire gives already a ton of fragment. The main problem keeps the same, we need catalyst (having 3 catalyst for 3000+ fragment is not well balanced) !

 

[CrazyWizard]

Correction: It's 8 attempts, not 10. But you can also earn extra attempts as reward for completing some encounters, which could bring you above the max, and you can also buy extra attempts for Medals or Diamonds.

And yes, I too prefer the "limited attempts" option to the Gates used in the Spire - it's a lot more flexible.

Related to that, another question for @Muf-Muf :
In FoE we sometimes get quest objectives such as:

Will we get similar quest objectives related to the Spire?

Oh god, I hope not so, that would be disastrous.
At least I would like to see some alternative.

I see the SS on the spire used and I could het many many KP out of the same units on the tournament, I really really really don't want to use up my units at the spire for an event, damaging my tournament efforts.
The negotiation thing I don't mind. but fighting nah.

 

[DeletedUser]

its already there, called dwarven armorer, gives 50% hp

Where can you get that building ?

 

[Karvest]

its already there, called dwarven armorer, gives 50% hp

With 15% chance from the last boss... not reliable at all.

 

[DeletedUser]

I think i am not bad on tournament (i play on felyndral) but i do not find the solution for this (at sylvester chapter) , i did not tried all solution (but orc strategist + mortar does not work) :....

Those images you're trying to post are on a website (pasteboard.co) that is using a trojan according to malwarebytes.

 

[Loki Blue]

If you want a good free image host, use https://www.flickr.com/.

 

[DeletedUser1657]

Similar to a lot of other feedback.

Difficulty.squad size/ chapter /etc
Sadly couldn't get very far in due to troops and squad sizes. Been in chapter 7 with not all 3 star troops and up against 3 star troops with larger squad sizes then mine combat becomes very difficult to impossible. Hopefully diplomacy and manual battle help but if the difficulty is this hard 5 steps I can't see myself getting much further even with those features. One would expect negotiation costs will be similarly high, which will limit progression.

Timers
I don't mind the gate timers. I do prefer the suggestion made earlier with having them all start at the same time and count down rather then only starting when you get to them

Rewards
Randomness is a pain, if all rewards where good it would be less of an issue but that is so subjective as to whats goods. While I can discuss the rewards I like this is inherently linked to probability and difficulty. The higher the difficulty and randomness then the higher my expectation is. If rewards where guaranteed I would be quite happy with coin and supply instants in the early stages and increasing to better options as the difficulty went up.

As to types of rewards

• Supply/KP instants are the lowest form of reward to me
• KP instants - Decent reward. I know inno previously said this was their lowest form but for a player KP means so much in terms of wonders, customisation and improvements in economy or combat allowing us to enjoy features like the spire even more or progress further as we improve our skill/towns
• Timer instants-Happy with these but quantity and duration are key. Personally nothing below 1hr is suitable for what I see in spire so far. Anything from 1hr and up is good and helps a variety of towns in different chapters, you can also increase quantity if you wish to keep duration down
• Restoration and blueprints - I think having a source that these can be obtained in a limited but individual basis would be useful to a number of players not in 10 chest fellowships.I could see these been equally difficult/rare in the spire but an opportunity for players to stay in the preferred ellowship and still get these would be nice.
• Magic buildings - great, love this.
• Event buildings that help us replenish or compete in spire - mixture of combat and economic ones. Like mentioned the UUU is a good choice, especially due to mix of troops in spire.
• Free troop buildings - especially if they were some new ones not just valorian vallor and grounds of orc strat
• vision vapor
• diamonds

 

[DeletedUser2859]

Dear Inno,
I agree that fighting should be challenging (once you provide some decent rewards) but it's not the absolute squad size what makes the fight difficult. HUGE squad size just makes the losses unbearable and prevents the players from playing the Spire (because tournaments are currently much better and you can't play both with this setting). You can make the fights difficult by adjusting the relative squad size, just give the player in later stages 100 units and the enemy 300 or something...that will make it tactically challenging yet the losses won't prevent players from playing it at all.
Other ideas - reduce waiting times - seriously, how can you dare to advertise "play at your own pace" and then make us wait so long? What if my pace is really really fast?
Increase diamond amounts - you know, WW provides 25 diamond every now and then and without any effort.
Drop the coin and supplies instants altogether, I don't know why you have crush for those things, but apart from the first few chapters, these are useless, and the first two chapters can't play the Spire anyway. Or adjust the prizes depending on the chapter player is in.
Add some guaranteed rewards, so it won't be a complete gamble and players can calculate with at least some prizes.
As to what prizes instead of supplies and coins? Others have suggested great ideas, here's my personal list:

AK instants, time boosters, spell fragments, CC, RR, BP (for boss chest, of course), combat boosting buildings, unit producing buildings, other useful buildings (like mana huts), vision vapors, diamonds, magical buillding, artifacts, portal bonuses, as a fodder goods or sentient goods, during events or FAs stuff we can use like sunflares or badges.
My personal suggestion for a reward that hasn't been mentioned yet - piece of pet food

Really, there are so many things you can put there instead of those crappy coins and supplies...I think most of the players hate them already from the events, no need to fuel that hatred further.

 

[Deleted User - 62044]

Can we sell the building?

I insist, can we sell the building? I mean the spire of eternity, it is annoying and ugly, it is not worth anything, it does not contribute anything to me and it constantly opens up when I drag the city with the mouse, sincerely it bothers me.

just a suggestion, if this invention, just to see how it goes, could be simulated battles??, that people do not lose their troops and that they do not receive the prizes, to see if it is feasible if it can be played or if it is worth it, who ??? Who will replace everything that players have lost when lowering difficulty levels?

I insist, I want to sell the spire of eternity building

 

[DeletedUser2817]

Coin instants are useful to decompose into spell fragments. *Tries to look for the silver lining*