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Knowledge Sharing Fellowship Perks
- Thread starter The Evenstar
- Start date
SoggyShorts
Well-Known Member
Pattern continues for KP,tournament, and Spire, so I believe @Karvest is correct: linear
Conqueror9
Member
Kp from Perks should have a separate button
it covered the "existing kp button"
suppose I am doing 10 kp chain with my fellowship members
i have 10 kp in my kp bar
when I click into ancient wonder and trying to do 10 kp
it is covered-up by "kp from Perks"
instead of "pressing 10 kp " to do the job of kp-chain
now
I have to do 10 mouse click ( 1 click to clear the "kp form Perks" and 9 mouse click of adding )
It increase heavy workload on player
The idea of "kp from Perks" is used to other player is completely RUBBISH ....
First, it create problem to player
secondly, player need to find a way to clear it
thirdly, it affect player plan on using kp as it need to clear a "rubbish idea"
finally, like my case, 1 mouse to clear "kp from Perks", 9 mouse click of 1 kp...my kp bar still has 1 kp which I can use my ancient wonder
that is to say ( 10 kp in kp bar for other player AW + "kp from perks to be used on other player ) = ( 9kp in kp bar for other player AW + "kp from perks to be used on other player AW + 1 kp which owner can used in tech tree or his AW )
that is to say, "kp from Perks" is not limited to use on other player AW, player can use it alternatively in other way
it covered the "existing kp button"
suppose I am doing 10 kp chain with my fellowship members
i have 10 kp in my kp bar
when I click into ancient wonder and trying to do 10 kp
it is covered-up by "kp from Perks"
instead of "pressing 10 kp " to do the job of kp-chain
now
I have to do 10 mouse click ( 1 click to clear the "kp form Perks" and 9 mouse click of adding )
It increase heavy workload on player
The idea of "kp from Perks" is used to other player is completely RUBBISH ....
First, it create problem to player
secondly, player need to find a way to clear it
thirdly, it affect player plan on using kp as it need to clear a "rubbish idea"
finally, like my case, 1 mouse to clear "kp from Perks", 9 mouse click of 1 kp...my kp bar still has 1 kp which I can use my ancient wonder
that is to say ( 10 kp in kp bar for other player AW + "kp from perks to be used on other player ) = ( 9kp in kp bar for other player AW + "kp from perks to be used on other player AW + 1 kp which owner can used in tech tree or his AW )
that is to say, "kp from Perks" is not limited to use on other player AW, player can use it alternatively in other way
Killy
Well-Known Member
@Conqueror9 You could spend 1 point from your bar first, then you spend the 10 kps with only 2 clicks instead of 10.
edeba
Well-Known Member
No, the AW and expansion penalties are too harsh.
Actually, I believe some of the later chapters have more research to do the same amount of stuff, so they have kicked up the tech hit that way.
Not sure if I counted correct, but huge increase in tech hit in chapter 18.
Chapter 15 - 29 tech
Chapter 16 - 28 tech
Chapter 17 - 29 tech
Chapter 18 - 38 tech
Last edited:
ekarat
Well-Known Member
Yes. That is what I've been saying all along -- the research penalty is too harsh and should be scaled back.
My position on AW and expansion penalties is that they would be okay once the research penalty is scaled back.
In particular, if you are advancing (and that is an 'if'), then you can choose AWs and expansions such that they help more than they hinder.
If you are not advancing, they help even less, so there is a motivation to keep them down, though the very best AWs do still pay for themselves. (Yes, I am cherry-picking, but since you get to choose which AWs to build, I consider that fair.)
In other words, I believe the scaling is about right for AWs and expansions, but the extra multiplicative factor for research makes the costs too large.
CrazyWizard
Well-Known Member
Guess how many unused expansions this city has
but thats the new reality if you want easy tournaments / spire in the long run
SoggyShorts
Well-Known Member
It's so bad that even a year later it still works it way into every thread on any subject longer than 2 pages.
I'm still curious to see if they'll realize the mistakes and fix them (2 years later for moonstone sets?) but I have very little hope ever since that one interview that was shared. Remember when someone pointed out that progress+wonder levels were bad and the answer was
"No, we checked and players with wonders are still outperforming players who have no wonders"?
ooof that was painful.
galrond
Well-Known Member
Not 2 but 3.
1. click: one point from bar
2. click: the free kp
3. click: the 9 points from bar
But the first click have to to be spent on something else:
- tech tree (if you have space)
- own AW (which goes directly against the swap tread idea)
- target shooting AW outside of FS
None of the 3 options are good in any way
galrond
Well-Known Member
As much as I hate the formular (and I do), I almost hate the discussion about the formular more.
Can ppl. plz stay on topic. I don´t read the other treads, to be fed reruns of reruns of reruns of tournament formular complaints
salandrine
Well-Known Member
Thats not working.Not 2 but 3.
1. click: one point from bar
2. click: the free kp
3. click: the 9 points from bar
But the first click have to to be spent on something else:
- tech tree (if you have space)
- own AW (which goes directly against the swap tread idea)
- target shooting AW outside of FS
None of the 3 options are good in any way
You are only able to spend the extra points to wonders within your own FS.
If you are trying to spend them on anything other, they will not be shown.
maxiqbert
Well-Known Member
it perfectly works you spend one NORMAL KP, then you may spend the free one + the 9 others in 2 clics
edeba
Well-Known Member
You really haven't worked out the math on that one because what you are saying isn't true. The squad size increases massively from AW levels and expansion.
All things equal, I calculated a 35% increase in squad size from being at the end of chapter 16/beginning of chapter 17 and the end of chapter 18, so 2 full chapters.
The range for AW is a 355% increase from zero to all, and the range for expansions is from say all placed free expansion and that plus all premium expansions is 30%. Combined those make up about a 500% increase in squad size. It is definitely highly regressive and I estimate it is 2 to 3 times higher than what the benefits can make up for.
Military speed for all three of the military buildings increases by a mere 17% where squad size is increasing by 35% from the two chapters, and it would have been about 29% if chapter 18 didn't have such a huge number of extra tech. So there is a net decline from the tech tree, and relatively speaking the squad size increase was double the increase in production capacity.
But maximum increase in military speed from any AW on troop production is 46%. You get 46% increase in troop size with 153 AW levels, but you need 105 AW levels to give you that 46% increase in military speed. There are AW that make you stronger and and improve your health and thus slow down the rate of loss, but they cap at 40% stronger. Those increases come with increased goods costs for negotiating, with that increase in squad size you need 46% more in manufacturers to keep up with the cost of negotiating with goods, which requires more land, which will further increase the squad size resulting in needing even more land for manufacturers to keep up.
I made a suggestion that the AW piece in the equation might be ok if they took the square root, so the AW part of MinMax's formula (0.003A +1) would give a max 113% increase in squad size from AW, and with maximum expansion would be about 150%, so if squad size is 800 without premium expansion or AW levels, it would be 2000 with max AW and expansions.
So what they came up with they were happy with and (0.006A+1)^0.5 for A=1 give the same hit to start, but would put the maximum range from AW to 185%, which combined with the premium expansion would be 240% increase, so that maximum squad size comparison would be 2720.
Right now when I use the formula a chapter 18 player with just the free expansion and no AW would have a squad size of 612 for the tournament, and then the maximum squad size with premium expansions is 3614. The first square root suggestion would make that squad size range 612 to 1530 and the second 612 to 2080.
I think the problem with the technology hit is that improvements we were given didn't match the tech hit and I think that's where that should be corrected.
edeba
Well-Known Member
Totally agree there... I have 12 expansions I could place. I don't get how they can't look at it and admit the design is a massive fail and get on with fixing it. I don't know how anyone who was involved in this could have any pride in their work and do anything but feel embarrassment at how big of a fail this is.
edeba
Well-Known Member
Stupid, stupid, stupid, not you, but to design that it leads to this as a winning strategy.View attachment 9499
Guess how many unused expansions this city has
but thats the new reality if you want easy tournaments / spire in the long run
Lovec Krys
Well-Known Member
They won't admit it, but give it a year or two and they will introduce new better squad size formula just before tournaments become unplayable for end game players. We can only hope that they will introduce new formula as soon as possible and that it won't be same or even bigger disaster.
DeletedUser3930
Guest
This new feature seems really lovely. Not yet in a fellowship in beta and haven't seen it working but is it possible to add an optional wonder administrator function of selecting which wonder to work on under the perks window and create a one click navigation to that wonder?
I've seen enough circular messages where someone writes the wrong person or wrong wonder.
I've seen enough circular messages where someone writes the wrong person or wrong wonder.