Fair Trades: Are they really?

[SoggyShorts]

Since we already have 2 sentient goods, a 3rd one is coming.

We have 3.

By building them now, I ensure I have the room and not demolishing something later plus I get goods to boot. It works for me.

That's like being at work and saying on Friday "Well I have to work on Monday, so I might as well just stay"

You keep saying "I've looked ahead to chapter 4" Try looking past the tutorial to chapter 6 and beyond. Just open an architect and design a chapter 10 city that has all 9 factory types, you'll understand then.

 

[Lovec Krys]

@soleil we don't know what they are planning for new chapter. And I have never demolished any of my boosted manufactories to build a T4+ one. Instead I have built additional ones.

@SoggyShorts I think he means by that, that in next 3 chapters we will get T7-T9 (my opinion: We won't and we'll be doing something different).

 

[DeletedUser]

@Lovec Krys yes that wasn't at you that was more at soggy because he's deleted so many. And I know a lot of people who get to fairies and delete a bunch to fit it all in. If I can help it, I won't delete any of them. What I've learned in games, is you never play at max level. If you can't see what your research needs will be for the next chapter then slow it down a little. These games aren't meant to be raced through. They do need to speed it up a little, I'm patient but when I first started holy smokes was it slow.

@SoggyShorts I have already done that and I can fit everything in. I'm looking at the wiki and it only shows 2 sentient goods, one for tier 1 and one for tier 2. If tier 3 now has a sentient good, i am unaware of it and should get my elixirs in next chapter!

 

[Lovec Krys]

@soleil Well in fact, I have deleted some of my manufactories in past as well (mostly T1). In my main city I'm in the last chapter, welcoming the time between chapters to improve my wonders and to have extra space for events etc.

Ok, so you realy ment T6. T6 was added for borgs(Constructs) chapter.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I have already done that and I can fit everything in.

Link?

 

[DeletedUser]

In my steel factory they could add a 3rd type of boosted good, I'm calling them Elvenalicious goods.

I did it awhile ago, no longer a link for it and I''m not going to redo it. Too cumbersome. Plus I'm not giving you all of my secrets. It can be done, there is math involved and it's beautiful. It can be very hard for me to be patient and not want to get to upper chapters to keep doing this. I love it. What I'm really hoping for as well is they tie together our cities. Maybe a beta 2 so we can play with it. Once they do that, maybe I'll make live cities.

I finally just got gems pet feed to finish out my 100 essences for my magic academy. I'm so excited, what do you think I'll get. 8 hour instant, Venar's rock or 35 kps?

 

[SoggyShorts]

Liar.

 

[DeletedUser]

Not lying you're just mad I'm not going to show you how to do it. I'm keeping it all to myself because I'm tired of arguing about this.
And on that note, c you! I'm going to enjoy my beautiful city.

 

[DeletedUser1657]

@SoggyShorts, that is your definition, to be efficient is to able to accomplish something with the least waste of time and effort; efficiency is producing enough, not overbuilding and not wasting. Demolishing factories because of overbuilding is a huge waste of time and effort. Overbuilding workshops for points is time wasted. Overbuilding residences is also time wasted because to go from a level 7 residence to 8 costs you more in culture than it is to upgrade 4 residences to max and leave the others at a lower level.

There are opportunity costs with everything. You are trading time and perhaps other things to save coins, supplies and some goods. Other people are trading those same coins, supplies and goods for greater production which gives them a glut of resources which they use on tournaments (designed as a resource sink) which gives them another glut of resources (runes, relics, spells, etc). They save time including in not pre-panning for basic resources as it is a non issue when you have 100's of thousands of goods, something you can do with a single factory of your boosted goods only. Two to 3 factories of boosted goods will see you have millions of goods for use in various aspects of play.

I can see your perspective in aiming to not waste anything, its a unique way to play and would present its own challenges. I do however question that is not ignoring an aspect of the game like tournaments and fellowships (you mentioned creating one) also not a waste of resources? I suggest having a look at them again through your own strategy glasses but consider the level of play that would meet your own requirements. remember that they offer extra KP (for your wonder levelling which will take decades by natural KP gain), relics (for more boost % which might let you need lower level factories), spells (again which could save you factory and workshop levels), relic for spells (to provide more options for MA to ensure it isn't idle, which makes more spells/pet food). You can always turn excess spells into spell fragments if needed.

Another thing to understand is your approach is incredibly unique and saying cross-tier trades are fine based on a single players strategy out of thousands is not exactly a fair representation of the majority of players their needs and frustrations. There are people with more "mainstream" strategy who also use cross-tier trades at the current rates. What i find interesting is there appear to be a lot of players who do like cross-tier trades as the mass volume of trades of that nature would indicate a somewhat equal supply, that or there are some very determined people willing to post the same trade day in and day out in the hope that just 1 of them is taken. In my experience most people don't have that level of patience, so I am pretty sure they are getting a reasonable "profit" from their trades to keep doing it.

 

[SoggyShorts]

. In my experience most people don't have that level of patience, so I am pretty sure they are getting a reasonable "profit" from their trades to keep doing it.

I've contacted a few, and the answer has generally been along the lines of "95% expire, but if one gets taken it's still a profit"

 

[DeletedUser2632]

@RandomNo. I'm doing okay progressing through the chapters, maybe that's where we have a disconnect. I'm super patient. I don't really feel the need to blast through chapters.

Tournaments before I quit weren't this bad, but now it seems they are being excessively used and costs to do them has increased. idk If you stop doing tournaments, level your wonders and use up your runes and relics it will make for a very boring game. It's why I hope to see more stuff in the game. I am patient but it can get a bit boring if there isn't an event going on. Why you'll see my city name as Snoozenar.

Lol, you really are disconnected, @soleil

I have been getting between 314 - 332 KP a week from tournament - 135 in the form of AW KP intants and the rest regular KPs. That's 320 KP a week I can put into AWs. AWs cost nothing but KP to level. Why would I stop tournaments just to level AWs? In fact, you are partially correct - I have stopped something to level my AWs but it's not tournaments. I have stopped my game progress to level AWs. This is my 3rd week in Constructs and I've just (literally 30 minutes ago) built the guest race portal. If you really wanted to level AWs, you'd do more, not less tournaments.

Now for the cost. What if I told you that with a combination of fighting and catering, I hit a minimum 3,750 points a week, most times more, and have currently over 10.5 million T1/2/3 goods combined in stock? I have 5/5/5 manufactories, not an outlandish number. You might say "but that's because you're in the end chapter" - do you know that you just need 6 provinces to hit 1,620 points a week (perhaps with some help in the beginning, that's what a Fellowship is for)? That is more than enough to qualify for most 10-chest fellowships and a chapter 3+ player can get 6 provinces open in tournament. The only thing that it really costs me is time - except for when I'm asleep, I come on every 3 - 4 hours to collect and reset productions.

I've said enough concerning this matter, if you will not be persuaded, so be it. In closing, I offer this quote, which I recently said to a fellow FS mate asking for advice on their city - "there is no city that cannot be turned around, only minds"

 

[DeletedUser]

@Mykan thank you for a very positive post. It’s a refreshing change to see a post that reflects both play styles. Instead of me always being wrong…

But I completely agree, my city might become Snoozenar permanently if I have to upgrade wonders with natural kp generation. Also, there aren’t enough other activities in the game to keep me interested with only upgrading wonders.

I also completely agree about the pop spells. Not having very many workshops and not having the ee wonder yet, I’m using up my instants. I like using the pop spells on my 3 workshops. Something, I wish elvenarchitect would take into account as well. My tome currently gives me 7k supplies per scout but scouting is not a daily thing. The first province of a tournament gives one.

The only thing is my magic academy. I will have 6k spell fragments after I de the buildings and unwanted gold spells, that’s 100 relics I can get from my magic academy. But it’s not enough for the challenges. Marble and Gems are the pet foods I would like to get. Those are the 2 relics that currently aren’t used up by other spells or my boosts. Btw I got the Venar’s rock with my very first roll on the magic academy. So cool. And omg it changes. Now it’s 500 diamonds, 5 aw 10 kps, and a goats rock. I am loving this. Didn’t know the gifts changed.

I’m also only 1/3 of the way through the event, who knows how many more things I’ll get to de. I could be at 15k spell fragments before this is all said and done. I wish! If I had 15k spell fragments then I probably wouldn’t need to do tournaments at all.

For the challenges, maybe I’m aiming too high right now to get to the 2400 mark with only 3 workshops. The only way I can, is by stacking the spells and that’s a lot of relics for the spells. I haven’t completely figured it out what exactly I need for 2400. I can get 1100 points by stacking the spells and can’t recall what I can get with my workshops. Maybe another thread for this discussion.

I’m also about a day and ½ away from researching my final squad size for chapter 3. This will allow me to work on my map earlier than I have before.

But I’m willing to try the tournaments again, but as you said, they are designed as a resource sink. Don’t really have a lot of extra resources to sink in them unless I use up what I’m saving. Maybe, I can create a new thread and someone can help me look at this objectively. Because right now, all I see is that it’s really expensive to do. But the new phoenix buildings may also change this with battling.

I also completely agree about cross trades, they work for how I play because I look forward and want my city with lots of factories and not over-producing. If it weren’t for this thread, truly, I wouldn’t have understood the value of them. I had seen all of these odd small cross trades before and wondered why people were doing them. Now, I know.

/end novel

 

[Karvest]

There is no over-producing in this game. Any amount that you can produce you can use in tournaments to get more KP/relics/spells/runes. The only bad thing can happen - disbalanced production that either force you to do heavy crosstrades/leave you out of orcs to cater/out of supplies to upkeep production/etc.

 

[DeletedUser]

@Karvest that's true, i look at tournaments as something optional. I'm willing to look at tournaments again, but unless the Phoenix building makes a substantial difference, i'm not really looking to use up my units on tournaments. My map battles I have minimal losses. Tournament battles seem to be harder battles. Catering is also much more expensive.

Unless they come out with a new activity, that I'm willing to spend my goods and units on that has a better return I may have to do without. I did just get 7 mm spells from a chest, knocked 14 relics off my list to get.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I’m also only 1/3 of the way through the event

I imagine that doing
121 beverages
208 simple tools
48 bread
20 advanced tools
59 groceries
9 toolboxes
with only 3 workshops must be a little on the difficult side.

 

[DeletedUser]

@SoggyShorts, true but that's not what's holding me up atm and I never expect to finish an event. They get a bit mind numbing doing workshop quests and I'm not going to add a bunch of workshops to my city for them. It's not world of workshops we're playing.

 

[DeletedUser]

But I think I answered my own question on challenges. Maybe the 2nd milestone is enough then I don't need so many relics and tournaments aren't nearly as necessary.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I never expect to finish an event.

 

[Moonlady70]

Never thought about goods amount required for research... it's too low to even notice. Main drain was always tourneys and (in early chapters) factories upgrades.

here you go

Spoiler: Research

For some it can be low, for some not

And the first 5 chapters requires mostly T 1 goods (Research, Building, Tournament, Provinces).

The only reason to Trade T 3 for T 1 is that you get the required T 1 faster as you are able to get them by your own or trading T1 for T1.

And also the given ratio from INNO is good for "allowed" pushing.

There are Fellowships, and they play together to help each other to go onward, so the "Feature" Trade of T3 for T1 should be allowed there, but should not be seen for other players outside the Fellowship and for players playing Single modus.

If you need urgent T1 goods the best and fastest way is your Fellowship, and there such trades should be placed, and for me it will be fine, even with the given ratio.

 

[DeletedUser]

@Moonlady70 That was impressive.