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Discussion Royal Restoration Spell

Marindor

Well-Known Member
Hi everyone,

Thanks for your feedback so far.

Regarding your feedback about comparing the value of Royal Restoration Spells to Blueprints: The goal of adjusting the costs to the respective tile sizes of the buildings was to give you the option to upgrade your favorite event buildings, no matter if they are very big or super small. Prior to the conversion, you would have needed to spend 1 RBlueprint for the upgrade of each building, maybe even 2 for the biggest and strongest event buildings. Small buildings, on the other hand, would have also cost one Spell, which would have made them the worst upgrade option available, essentially penalizing you for wanting to keep that building in your city.

Regarding your concerns about the conversion rate, we do understand that, especially for players in higher chapters, everything seems more expensive. At the same time, however, we also need to keep players in earlier chapters in mind. All of our calculations right now are based on a value of one blueprint being 10 Royal Restoration spells. Premium Residences, for instance, as the most commonly placed premium buildings, have an average tile size of 10.85 combined for Humans and Elves. As you can see, the average for these is slightly above 10, due to higher Chapter buildings being bigger, but also significantly more effective. If you take Elves, the first premium residential above 10 tiles of size occurs as late as Chapter 8. Before that point in time, each upgrade actually even costs less than it did with Blueprints before.

This in turn means that each tournament completion now gives the equivalent needed to upgrade an average residence, and then some. Additionally, it has become a lot easier for smaller Fellowships to gain the Royal Restoration Spells for their members, as the conversion now allows us to split up the spells and put them already in earlier chests. Of course, the demands will increase over time in the game. That is only natural.

Of course, bigger buildings require more spells (because their output is a lot higher as well). Please also look at the fact that for smaller event buildings, it means that you can now upgrade more buildings per week than you would have with just 1 BP. Counting the overall average output per tile, it should be balanced in a fair way. Also: You don't have to make it to the final chest in the tournaments anymore to still be able to gain Royal Restoration Spells, so in general they will be obtainable for far more players than just the really fanatic ones who were able to acquire Blueprints before.

Either way, we will of course keep a close eye on the developments on Beta, that is the whole point of testing the release early. Therefore we also appreciate your comments and concerns, but please take some time and test these changes as well, play tournaments, upgrade some buildings, and let us know how everything feels. :)
 

Wowwie

Well-Known Member
Don't like to qoute myself there but good job on making the spell bad.
Right now a blueprint is worth about 20 spaces. Making the 1:10 ratio is so bad. I did not even think that you will make it this bad.
15 is still bad but 10 is totally trash.

Also getting only 11 spells/tourneyment is making every tournament player feel trash and is nerfing every tourneyment guild by a lot.
At least implement chest 11 or 12 so tourneyment players have a chance to get the same as beforehand.
Right now you are "stealing" them half of a blueprint because it's worth ~20 spells. At the end of the research tree it is worth 25 spells.

I really like it that it is tile based but why you have to nerf the blueprint ratio and making them rarer than blueprints.
 

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DeletedUser2576

Guest
You are telling the people that have heavy loses (50% loss) that there are benefits in very early chapters. This will not help this people.
Also you are telling tourneymentplayers that they can get RRs in earlier chest. Beeing in Fellowships that never had less than 10 chests this year also does not help in satisfying this group of players.

Before this update: we can upgrade our magic buildings and no event building:
After this update: we can upgrade 50% of our magic buildings and no event building because no RR left.

so: 50% loss. no gain.

Also you can't say the average is 10,5 RRs because you only need days/weeks for the first chapter and months in the later ones so timewise the average is way above 10,5. More like 15-20.

Your points are logical when read for the first time but when you look deeper into it 10 RRs per BP is not fair making the paying user and active user/tourneyment player the ones that are mad and maybe quitting/ stopping paying.

In the past many players dislikes some other design decisions and i could understand it or the balancing aspect of it and i wrote before the conversion rate update that i have trust that tilewise is a good way but i lost this faith now. 1BP->20 RR would be fair. 1BP->15RR is also bad when you want it for magic buildings but fine if you want event buildings.
Would have never imagined that 1:10 would be a thing making half of the game unenjoyable.

edit: BTW the compensation for the event buildings nerf (which i could understand) was a magic house which is now being nerfed as well. oh that irony
 
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Jaxom

Well-Known Member
As a non-diamond player who began playing when the game was first released I am happy to see that I can now get some RR spells without having to reach chest 10. Up to this point I have never had a blueprint since my fellowship does not do 10-chest tournaments. My choice.

So I won't be able to give any feedback until I get some RR spells, starting this week. But I think that having RRs as prizes in earlier tournament chests will be an incentive for players and fellowships to go further in tournaments. 10-chests is tough. I have never gotten past 8 in any of my worlds.

I hope that RRs will be obtainable through crafting. Not cheap, but obtainable.
 

slide

Well-Known Member
The whole conversion rate is just plain wrong.

If you're saying that its cheaper for lower chapters, this would make it more expensive for the higher chapters but pretty much the same for the middle chapters?

Not so, I have magic houses and a magic workshop and am currently in fairies (Chapter 7 out of 13 chapters), to upgrade one of each to orcs will cost 12 RR for the house and 18 RR for the workshop... the cost to me has gone up by 50% from 2 blueprints to the equivalent of 3 blueprints... so at what chapter is the cost the same? How low down the chapters do we have to go?
 

palmira

Well-Known Member
Here on beta I am quite OK with the RR spell as I only have one magic house but live this will be disastrous, for me and for a lot of players with large numbers of magic buildings. When my FS knew the numbers there was a small revolution that I quenched saying that maybe the numbers would be adjusted.

I agree with the math involving event buildings but for magic buildings, that we bought in a certain scenario, the upgrade price should be 10 RR spells for all chapters. Anything else is very difficult to accept
 

Deleted User - 60107

Guest
Since there's no tournament currently I can't check to see how many RR spells we can get from each tournament. For that reason I am going to withhold final judgement, but so far 10 RR per 1 Blueprint seems too low, especially if you have old event buildings that need multiple upgrades (for example, on Beta I have a chapter II Scream of Halloween, and I am at the end of Elementals...)
 

Ainor

Well-Known Member
Regarding your concerns about the conversion rate, we do understand that, especially for players in higher chapters, everything seems more expensive. At the same time, however, we also need to keep players in earlier chapters in mind. All of our calculations right now are based on a value of one blueprint being 10 Royal Restoration spells. Premium Residences, for instance, as the most commonly placed premium buildings, have an average tile size of 10.85 combined for Humans and Elves. As you can see, the average for these is slightly above 10, due to higher Chapter buildings being bigger, but also significantly more effective. If you take Elves, the first premium residential above 10 tiles of size occurs as late as Chapter 8. Before that point in time, each upgrade actually even costs less than it did with Blueprints before.
Trilussa's chicken...
It's mean that this conversion is not fair for players over chapter 8 (especially if they are tournament players, and if they are on the last chapter: I ended amuni one month ago but I can't upgrading my magical residence whit a blueprint that I have already win, I must wait for new chapter but royal restoration will become before...)
Imho the conversion rate should be chapter related
 
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DeletedUser607

Guest
So the old buildings had to be downgraded immediately, for that?

if we had known before, planning would have been differently.

So, I've upgraded my magical mana huts, they are quite nice and cost just 4 spells per building per level.

just one more question, it was always said, that this is a spell, yet it is in the instant-section? how so?
 

DeletedUser2198

Guest
I like the Spells being distributed NOT just in chest 10. Nice idea on that Elvenar team!!! My group has trouble with trying to get the 10th chest open but we regularly get to the 7th or 8th. From the sounds of it, well all pick up a few spells each week which is great.!
 

Deleted User - 60107

Guest
just one more question, it was always said, that this is a spell, yet it is in the instant-section? how so?
In Elvenar the term "spell" includes both Enchantments and Instants.


Marindor says "per Tournament, you'll be able to get eleven Royal Restoration Spells"
I'm more interested in which chests give RR spells, and how many. In any case 11 RR spells per tournament seems too little, so hopefully the tournament chests won't be the only way to get them.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
I appreciate the criteria used for this evaluation, but it is utterly flawed and punitive against your players that spend money.

In my time here I've seen few that start with a ton of magic buildings and upgrade all the way. Most players add magic buildings as they go through the chapters. Additionally, game city size matters and smaller players do not have the same space. So chapter of purchase and size of city are way more important indicators for this calculation.

When I purchased my magic buildings I calculated the upgrading cost in both diamonds and weeks, and I did not purchase my magic buildings before chapter 8, and that is a complaint coming back from my f/s which is full of diamond purchasing players. You have gained a lot of diamond sales through my advocacy within my f/s of the benefits of the magic buildings, and none of those purchases were small magic buildings. You have simply dealt about an 80% increase in resources to upgrade magic buildings and I have absolutely no doubt that if you check your facts, and did a properly weighted calculation, the criteria used for this conversion does not look anything like how people have purchased magic buildings. I also doubt that if you check the historical use of blueprints for active players, a player purchase and blue print usage weighted calculation will show far more of them going to the bigger magic buildings.

I have seen a number of tiny cities that have some magic building and these people are not playing. I seriously doubt that they paid for their magic buildings or that they had any vested interest in them. Using this to skew the calculation against players is machiavellian.

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your feedback so far.

Regarding your feedback about comparing the value of Royal Restoration Spells to Blueprints: The goal of adjusting the costs to the respective tile sizes of the buildings was to give you the option to upgrade your favorite event buildings, no matter if they are very big or super small. Prior to the conversion, you would have needed to spend 1 RBlueprint for the upgrade of each building, maybe even 2 for the biggest and strongest event buildings. Small buildings, on the other hand, would have also cost one Spell, which would have made them the worst upgrade option available, essentially penalizing you for wanting to keep that building in your city.

Regarding your concerns about the conversion rate, we do understand that, especially for players in higher chapters, everything seems more expensive. At the same time, however, we also need to keep players in earlier chapters in mind. All of our calculations right now are based on a value of one blueprint being 10 Royal Restoration spells. Premium Residences, for instance, as the most commonly placed premium buildings, have an average tile size of 10.85 combined for Humans and Elves. As you can see, the average for these is slightly above 10, due to higher Chapter buildings being bigger, but also significantly more effective. If you take Elves, the first premium residential above 10 tiles of size occurs as late as Chapter 8. Before that point in time, each upgrade actually even costs less than it did with Blueprints before.

This in turn means that each tournament completion now gives the equivalent needed to upgrade an average residence, and then some. Additionally, it has become a lot easier for smaller Fellowships to gain the Royal Restoration Spells for their members, as the conversion now allows us to split up the spells and put them already in earlier chests. Of course, the demands will increase over time in the game. That is only natural.

Of course, bigger buildings require more spells (because their output is a lot higher as well). Please also look at the fact that for smaller event buildings, it means that you can now upgrade more buildings per week than you would have with just 1 BP. Counting the overall average output per tile, it should be balanced in a fair way. Also: You don't have to make it to the final chest in the tournaments anymore to still be able to gain Royal Restoration Spells, so in general they will be obtainable for far more players than just the really fanatic ones who were able to acquire Blueprints before.

Either way, we will of course keep a close eye on the developments on Beta, that is the whole point of testing the release early. Therefore we also appreciate your comments and concerns, but please take some time and test these changes as well, play tournaments, upgrade some buildings, and let us know how everything feels. :)
 

slide

Well-Known Member
I'm more interested in which chests give RR spells, and how many. In any case 11 RR spells per tournament seems too little, so hopefully the tournament chests won't be the only way to get them.

It's the Inno way of giving with one hand and taking with the other... 1 blueprint is worth 10 RR spells, so we'll give you 11 RR spells instead of the 10 which you should have got when you get the 10th chest... but we'll make the cost of upgrading magic buildings which would have cost 1 blueprint to be a lot more than 10 RR spells!
 

Deleted User - 62044

Guest
all the work lost, all the time lost, all the mistakes will be suffered by us, ... all that, for what? ... so as not to give better rewards in the events ???? I do not see the feelback anywhere.

I give an opportunity but ......
..... I do not like the idea, we just ask for better rewards, for me, this is another waste of time instead of solving the real mistakes of the game.
 

DeletedUser2606

Guest
Will it be possible to upgrade summoning spells using RR? I did not get a building in my chapter 5 Beta city but if it had been chapter 6 I would have been interested in its producing spells to improve guest race production. It would have been nice if I could have got the summoning spell in chapter V and then upgraded it early in chapter six so that once my dwarves started producing things I could then create the building and use it. AS it is I don't know how much of its limited production time the building would lose in upgrading.
 
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